DooDoot wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:12 am
AgarikaJ wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:34 am
I added the warning that the stance of Ajahn Brahm was controversial
No. There was nothing controversial about ordaining women. Buddhism has extremely systematic Vinaya. Ordaining women should not be controversial at all because both bhikkhus and bhikkhuni have clear rules to abide to. Please do not misrepresent my reply to you, after I took the time to write a clear reply to you. All I pointed out was the lack of virtue in what occurred. I never posted anything "controversial" occurred. Kind regards
I apologize if I did not acknowledge your reply properly.
Actually I agree with your point that there should be nothing controversial about ordaining women. Still, from the view of the Thai Sangha, there very much was.
Helpfully, Ajahn Sujato posted the meeting minutes from Wat Pah Pong where Ajahn Brahm was expulsed. https://sujato.wordpress.com/2010/01/02 ... ahn-brahm/
There is a statement from Wat Pha Nanachat: http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php ... 61,0,0,1,0
and an Open Letter To All From Ajahn Brahm On His Exclusion by Wat Pah Pong: http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php ... 67,0,0,1,0
A good number of Theras came to word during the WPP meeting and were able to present their viewpoint and I do know that thir abbreviated views as logged in those meeting minutes were discussed before that at length with Ajahn Brahm. Therefore, forgive me to say that, I do detect a large amount of controversy, which led to quite personal repercussions for Ajahn Brahm.
They centered mainly around the fact that he was unwilling to (or due to knowledge of the Vinaya unable to, as is his perspective) accept that ordaining bikkhunis was Wrong View from the get-go and he would have to publicly renounce it. Simply promising not to ordain any bikhhuni again was not sufficient to keep him in his position, so it 'was agreed' that Bodhinyana monastery might split from Wat Pha Pong to avoid further discontent.
Were all those Theras wrong? And was 'allowing' him to split off his lineage rather a more virtuous way moving forward for Theravada instead of allowing one monk to hold an irreconcilable view which goes against the declared consensus of many others?
At the time I also followed the discussions and recriminations closely and once more must I state, that I found the explanations made by Ajahn Brahm, following his understanding of the Vinaya, conclusive that bikkhunis can and should be ordained. This does not change the fact that the viewpoint of multiple Theras on this matter, for a Theravada practitioner, should also hold the greatest weight.
So I am not unhappy over how things played out in the end: bikkhunis still ordained and working towards enlightenment, Ajahn Brahm able to follow his teachings independently and last but not least a pacified Thai Sangha. For us as laymen this allows to follow the teachers and practice we have accepted for ourselves as best without needing to take an either/or-stance.