What murderers do next human life

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auto
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What murderers do next human life

Post by auto » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:56 pm

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"'So, friends, it seems that you don't know that you existed in the past, and that you did not not exist; you don't know that you did evil actions in the past, and that you did not not do them; you don't know that you did such-and-such evil actions in the past; you don't know that so-and-so much stress has been exhausted, or that so-and-so much stress remains to be exhausted, or that with the exhaustion of so-and-so much stress all stress will be exhausted; you don't know what is the abandoning of unskillful mental qualities and the attainment of skillful mental qualities in the here-&-now. That being the case, those in the world who are murderers, bloody-handed doers of what is cruel, when they are later reborn among human beings, go forth with the Niganthas.'

Who are Niganthas:
"Once, Mahanama, when I was staying near Rajagaha on Vulture Peak Mountain, a number of Niganthas were at Black Rock on the slopes of Isigili, practicing continuous standing: rejecting seats, experiencing fierce, sharp, racking pains due to exertion. So in the evening, rising from seclusion, I went to the Niganthas at Black Rock on the slopes of Isigili and on arrival asked them, 'Why are you practicing continuous standing: rejecting seats, experiencing fierce, sharp, racking pains due to exertion?' When this was said, the Niganthas said to me, 'Friend, the Nigantha Nataputta[5] is all-knowing, all-seeing, and claims total knowledge & vision thus: "Whether I am walking or standing, sleeping or awake, knowledge & vision are continuously & continually established in me." He has told us, "Niganthas, there are evil actions that you have done in the past. Exhaust them with these painful austerities. When in the present you are restrained in body, restrained in speech, and restrained in mind, that is the non-doing of evil action for the future. Thus, with the destruction of old actions through asceticism, and with the non-doing of new actions, there will be no flow into the future. With no flow into the future, there is the ending of action. With the ending of action, the ending of stress. With the ending of stress, the ending of feeling. With the ending of feeling, all suffering & stress will be exhausted."[6] We approve of that [teaching], prefer it, and are gratified by it.'

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Wizard in the Forest
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Re: What murderers do next human life

Post by Wizard in the Forest » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:51 pm

Niganthas here refer to the Jains who were the disciples of Nigantha Nataputta.
"One is not born a woman, but becomes one."- Simone de Beauvoir

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DooDoot
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Re: What murderers do next human life

Post by DooDoot » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:11 am

auto wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:56 pm
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"'So, friends, it seems that you don't know that you existed in the past, and that you did not not exist; you don't know that you did evil actions in the past, and that you did not not do them; you don't know that you did such-and-such evil actions in the past; you don't know that so-and-so much stress has been exhausted, or that so-and-so much stress remains to be exhausted, or that with the exhaustion of so-and-so much stress all stress will be exhausted; you don't know what is the abandoning of unskillful mental qualities and the attainment of skillful mental qualities in the here-&-now. That being the case, those in the world who are murderers, bloody-handed doers of what is cruel, when they are later reborn among human beings, go forth with the Niganthas.'
For me, this translation is questionable because the Buddha appears to ridicule the Jain beliefs in unknowable past kamma but then the translation gives the impression the Buddha asserts the painful feelings are due to past life kamma. The Pali word here is 'paccājāto', which is just another of many Pali terms the translators conviently translate as "reborn" even though "jato" does not necessarily have this meaning, as follows:
Angulimala, go to that woman and on arrival say to her, 'Sister, since I was born (jāto) I do not recall intentionally killing a living being. Through this truth may there be wellbeing for you, wellbeing for your fetus.' But, lord, wouldn't that be a lie for me? For I have intentionally killed many living beings. Then in that case, Angulimala, go to that woman and on arrival say to her, 'Sister, since I was born (jāto) in the noble birth, I do not recall intentionally killing a living being. Through this truth may there be wellbeing for you, wellbeing for your fetus.'

MN 86
For me, the Buddha is saying (as a metaphor) the Jain practise brings the same painful results as committing murder.

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TamHanhHi
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Re: What murderers do next human life

Post by TamHanhHi » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:17 pm

Basically the Buddha was saying it was foolish for the Niganthas to think they could burn off past evil karma by simply practicing painful austerities--especially if the pain they were experiencing was due to present karma. That is, when you choose in the present to stand in one place all day long and experience the pain of that... it's because you chose to do that now. Therefore no old karma is being exhausted.
"Just as a large banyan tree, on level ground where four roads meet, is a haven for the birds all around, even so a lay person of conviction is a haven for many people: monks, nuns, male lay followers, & female lay followers."AN 5.38 :candle: | Blog at http://dhammareflections.wordpress.com

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