Mindfulness is the direct path?

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kverty
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Mindfulness is the direct path?

Post by kverty » Sun May 06, 2018 5:03 pm

Right mindfulness is one of the eight path factors but it is also described in the suttas (satipatthana sutta) as the direct path to nibbana. So if you practice the four bases for mindfulness you also practice the noble eightfold path? How do these two correspond to each other?

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cappuccino
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Re: Mindfulness is the direct path?

Post by cappuccino » Sun May 06, 2018 5:40 pm

mindfulness means to remember the teaching

whenever that would help, which is always
Don't wait, the time will never be just right

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mikenz66
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Re: Mindfulness is the direct path?

Post by mikenz66 » Sun May 06, 2018 6:49 pm

kverty wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 5:03 pm
So if you practice the four bases for mindfulness you also practice the noble eightfold path?
I think that it is implicit in the Satipatthana Sutta that one would also be practicing other aspects of the eight-fold path, such as right livelihood and so on. The first three sections are about observing, and building mindfulness and concentration, but the fourth section is more "active". Notice that in the fourth section there is work on eliminating the fetters, establishing the awakening factors, and understanding the Noble Truths.

Satipatthana at that level isn't just being mindful of what it going on. Don't get it confused with introductory instructions on mindfulness...

:heart:
Mike

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rightviewftw
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Re: Mindfulness is the direct path?

Post by rightviewftw » Sun May 06, 2018 7:29 pm

Development of the Four Satipatthana is the direct path
How to Destroy any addiction
How to Meditate: Satipatthana Mahasi
Медитация Сатипаттхана Випассана
How To Develop Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
Complete Manual of Insight by Mahasi Sayadaw
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
Ledi Sayadaw's Anapana Dipani (Samatha) @ ffmt.fr/articles/maitres/LediS/anapana-dipani.ledi-sayadaw.pdf
Dhammapada @ myweb.ncku.edu.tw/~lsn46/tipitaka/sutta/khuddaka/dhammapada/dhp-contrast-reading/dhp-contrast-reading-en/
don't feed the trolls

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DooDoot
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Re: Mindfulness is the direct path?

Post by DooDoot » Sun May 06, 2018 7:57 pm

kverty wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 5:03 pm
Right mindfulness is one of the eight path factors but it is also described in the suttas (satipatthana sutta) as the direct path to nibbana. So if you practice the four bases for mindfulness you also practice the noble eightfold path? How do these two correspond to each other?
Mindfulness means to remember to practise the teachings. To practise right view, right intention, right speech, right action & right livelihood requires right mindfulness. Refer to MN 117, which says for each path factor:
One is mindful to abandon wrong dhamma & to enter & remain in right dhamma: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort & right mindfulness — run & circle around right dhamma.

MN 117
For example, right view tell us we should give up craving, as follows:
And what, monks, is right view? Knowledge with regard to stress, knowledge with regard to the origination of stress, knowledge with regard to the stopping of stress, knowledge with regard to the way of practice leading to the stopping of stress: This, monks, is called right view. SN 45.8

'This noble truth of the origination of stress is to be abandoned' SN 56.11
Therefore if you are mindful you act to give up craving; as described repeatedly in the Satipatthana Sutta, with the following instruction:
He remains... mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.

MN 10
When the mind gives up craving, it will be quiet & sensitive and will know the breathing.

paul
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Re: Mindfulness is the direct path?

Post by paul » Sun May 06, 2018 9:13 pm

kverty wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 5:03 pm
Right mindfulness is one of the eight path factors but it is also described in the suttas (satipatthana sutta) as the direct path to nibbana. So if you practice the four bases for mindfulness you also practice the noble eightfold path? How do these two correspond to each other?
It is right to approach the NEP through the Satipatthana sutta, and as mikenz66 has noted, the fourth foundation of mindfulness provides the information on how mindfulness is related to the NEP, remembering that the fourth noble truth is the NEP, so it is better to think in terms of the four noble truths. In the Dhammacakkappavattana sutta, SN 56:11, the Buddha sets out the responsibilities of each truth:

‘…this noble truth of stress is to be comprehended…
this noble truth of the origination of stress is to be abandoned…
this noble truth of the cessation of stress is to be directly experienced…
this noble truth of the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress is to be developed.”



“Under the topic of the fourth frame of reference, DN 22 lists five sets of categories to keep in mind: the five hindrances, the five clinging-aggregates, the sixfold sense media, the seven factors for awakening, and the four noble truths. As we have already noted, the four noble truths and their duties form the overarching framework for understanding how right mindfulness should function. The remaining sets of categories fall under these truths and the duties appropriate to them. The hindrances, as a cause of stress, are to be abandoned. The clinging-aggregates, as the primary example of the truth of stress, are to be comprehended to the point of dispassion. As for the sixfold sense-media, the discussion in DN 22 focuses on the fetters that arise in dependence on these media—fetters that as a cause of stress should be abandoned. The seven factors for awakening, as aspects of the path, are to be developed.

What this means is that these categories are intended as frameworks to keep in mind to guide your ardency in trying to fulfill the duties of the four noble truths. DN 22 gives no indication of when a particular framework might be more useful than another, but a few observations might be helpful here. The sixfold sense-media form the framework for the practice of restraint of the senses. The five hindrances and seven factors for awakening are most often treated as guides for what to abandon and what to develop when bringing the mind to concentration. The five clinging-aggregates are a useful framework for inducing dispassion in two circumstances: when you want to analyze any phenomena that would pull you out of concentration into greed and distress with reference to the world; and when you want to develop dispassion for the world of becoming created by the concentration itself. The four noble truths provide an overarching framework for the practice as a whole. As we noted, the description of right mindfulness in MN 117—in which mindfulness circles around the first five factors of the path to bring about right concentration—would count as an application of this framework. It also illustrates how this framework arches over the others in providing guidance in how to bring mindfulness to bear on every part of the path.
It would be impossible to list all the ways in which these frameworks can be put to use. The following discussion is meant simply to provide a few suggestions for further inquiry.”—-“Right Mindfulness”, Thanissaro.

paul
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Re: Mindfulness is the direct path?

Post by paul » Mon May 07, 2018 11:14 am

Thanissaro: Supremacy of Four Noble Truths:
https://tricycle.org/magazine/the-far-shore/

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