How to stop associating yourself with your thoughts?

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Dinsdale
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Re: How to stop associating yourself with your thoughts?

Post by Dinsdale » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:09 am

acinteyyo wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:46 pm
Right Effort, Right Intention and Right Concentration are skills to be developed. They aren't developed by mere will. I cannot simply decide to have Right Effort and Right Intention, but by constantly choosing wholesome conditions over unwholesome conditions (in order to know what is what there must be Right View at least to some extent) these skills eventually progress and improve, come to perfection, while others diminish.
Sure, but who or what is "constantly choosing"? Our practice is to "tame the mind", but apparently there is nobody doing the taming. :shrug:

Do we need the doctrine of the two truths here? ;) Actually I don't think that these questions can be answered intellectually, hence the need for sustained practice.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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acinteyyo
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Re: How to stop associating yourself with your thoughts?

Post by acinteyyo » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:48 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:09 am
acinteyyo wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:46 pm
Right Effort, Right Intention and Right Concentration are skills to be developed. They aren't developed by mere will. I cannot simply decide to have Right Effort and Right Intention, but by constantly choosing wholesome conditions over unwholesome conditions (in order to know what is what there must be Right View at least to some extent) these skills eventually progress and improve, come to perfection, while others diminish.
Sure, but who or what is "constantly choosing"? Our practice is to "tame the mind", but apparently there is nobody doing the taming. :shrug:
Well, I assume it is wisdom (pañña) and appropriate attention (yoniso manasikara) that put their fingertips on the scales so that it tipps more towards wholsomeness. That's the “constantly choosing“ in my eyes. The “choosing“ also happens when their isn't enough wisdom tipping the scales towards unwholesome conditions.
Spiny Norman wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:09 am
Do we need the doctrine of the two truths here? ;) Actually I don't think that these questions can be answered intellectually, hence the need for sustained practice.
I think we can go on without the doctrine of two truths. As far as I am concerned I know that I can use “my-self“ in order to do the practice, even if it appears to be not as homogeneous, permanent and not as appropriate as it once was. The ability to function as a person doesn't get lost only because the personality is exposed as being fraud. What significantly changes is how things are seen but the things themselves remain just as they are.

I agree with you, intellectually this will probably never be adequately explainable.

best wishes, acinteyyo
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

Dinsdale
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Re: How to stop associating yourself with your thoughts?

Post by Dinsdale » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:35 pm

acinteyyo wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:48 pm
Well, I assume it is wisdom (pañña) and appropriate attention (yoniso manasikara) that put their fingertips on the scales so that it tipps more towards wholsomeness. That's the “constantly choosing“ in my eyes. The “choosing“ also happens when their isn't enough wisdom tipping the scales towards unwholesome conditions.
Yes, could be. I'm really not sure, but not being sure feels OK! I do find working with the sense bases in the context of satipatthana to be a fascinating and revealing practice, and at times surprising. I have an open mind about where the practice will lead.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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