Mahanikaya vs Dhammayuttika

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TRobinson465
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Mahanikaya vs Dhammayuttika

Post by TRobinson465 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:07 pm

Hi there, so I attend a Mahanikaya temple and was wondering what are some of the specific identifying factors that differentiate Mahanikaya and Dhammayuttika?

I know Dhammayut was started by a Thai prince and they tend to be forest tradition etc., but are there any specific customs or practices that are different? I've also noticed that westerners (as well as the people here) tend to be Thai forest tradition and likely dhammayut. Most of the temples I've visited have been Mahanikaya, and I havent spent enough time at Dhammayut temples to really make out the specific differences in customs or practices.

I've also heard that at Dhammayut/Thai Forest Tradition temples, monks usually just have one meal a day. Where as at Mahanikaya (as far as I've seen) seem to have 2 meals, so long as they are before noon of course.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism"

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mikenz66
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Re: Mahanikaya vs Dhammayuttika

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:20 pm

Hi TRobinson465,

Dhammayut was started by King Monkut (before he took over as king) in the 1800s as a reform movement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhammayuttika_Nikaya
Given this history, the HQ in Bangkok, and therefore many Dhammayut monks there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wat_Bowonniwet_Vihara

Some forest monks are Dhammayut, some are not. Ajahn Chah's lineage isn't, for example.

:anjali:
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khemindas
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Re: Mahanikaya vs Dhammayuttika

Post by khemindas » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:13 am

I really don't like Dhammayut tradition for many reasons:
1) Many of them preach eternalistic and others non-buddhist views, and practice non-buddhist practices.
2) Most of them very selfish, and many think about themself that, they a best nikaya, and others are nothing.
3) In public they show that they are very vinaya monks, but secretly I saw some of them eating food in the evening, and even I saw how in one monastery abbot drove a car to foodmarket after pindapata
4) They are separatist nikaya, instead just to become alone and practice strict, they wants to create their own nikaya and separate. And also they very close to king, means involved in poiltical intrigues.
5) They go against the middle path, because many of them go to second extreme, atthakilamatanuyoga (self-mortification), and they proud of this.

So this 5 basic things why I don't like Dhammayut nikaya.

TRobinson465
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Re: Mahanikaya vs Dhammayuttika

Post by TRobinson465 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:28 am

khemindas wrote:I really don't like Dhammayut tradition for many reasons:
1) Many of them preach eternalistic and others non-buddhist views, and practice non-buddhist practices.
2) Most of them very selfish, and many think about themself that, they a best nikaya, and others are nothing.
3) In public they show that they are very vinaya monks, but secretly I saw some of them eating food in the evening, and even I saw how in one monastery abbot drove a car to foodmarket after pindapata
4) They are separatist nikaya, instead just to become alone and practice strict, they wants to create their own nikaya and separate. And also they very close to king, means involved in poiltical intrigues.
5) They go against the middle path, because many of them go to second extreme, atthakilamatanuyoga (self-mortification), and they proud of this.

So this 5 basic things why I don't like Dhammayut nikaya.

lol. thanks for sharing. Well i think a few of the things, like #3, are things that are an issue in some mahanikaya temples also. Some of their practices are in fact unnecessary, like only eating one meal a day (most mahanikaya temples eat 2 meals, just b4 noon. which is perfectly allowed in the vinaya). But yeah from what ive read and heard Dhammayut is more strict and focused on self development (as opposed to city traditions where theres a factor of propogation for the benefit of others). I dont really consider that to be bad tho, the forest and city traditions go hand in hand as complements to each other, they just focus on different things. But obviously if every1 only focused on thier own self development buddhism would just die out.

Dhammayut was started by a thai royal so they have ties to the royal family and get a bunch of unearned privileges as a result. But you are right, i have seen cases where Dhammayut acts like they're better than every1 else. I wouldnt lump them in and say all Dhammayut are like that of course, but its just something that happens sometimes since they are distinct and are royally backed.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism"

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khemindas
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Re: Mahanikaya vs Dhammayuttika

Post by khemindas » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:46 am

6) They are follow double standarts, while Mahanikaya everywhere allow them stay in monasteries, they in opposite not. Once I asked to stay in Dhammayut monastery at Bangkok, and abbot refuse me to stay, he say he can't allow because I'm not Dhammayut nikaya, such a hypocrisy, from their side, I think now Mahanikaya also should not allow them stay in Mahanikaya monasteries anymore.

dharmacorps
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Re: Mahanikaya vs Dhammayuttika

Post by dharmacorps » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:45 pm

The main differences as you can see already, is sectarian. The Thai Forest Tradition includes both orders. It isn't of particular meaning unless you are ordained, where protocol between orders gets a little complex.

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Re: Mahanikaya vs Dhammayuttika

Post by sgns » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:20 am

There is an interesting article by Thanissaro Bhikkhu about the relationship between the Thai Forest traditions and Dhammayut called "An Essay on the Thai Forest Tradition and its Relationship with the Dhammayut Hierarchy".

It outlines the complex history of political alliances and hostility between Dhammayut and Thai Forest. Thanissaro Bhikkhu says this relationship also has modern day implications for the preservation of forested wildernesses in Thailand (although the article itself is 12 years old).

You can find the article here https://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Wri ... 20Ones.pdf

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