what happens after death?

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Individual
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Re: what happens after death?

Post by Individual » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:07 am

pegembara wrote:"Yet mainstream psychologists are skeptical, because it's been shown to be able to create false memories, through creative encouragement of fantasy, like dreaming"


Precisely.
What are memories real or imagined which are all mental processes which are impermanent and not self? Even our present moment experiences are not self what more "past life" ones.
There is a difference between what is imagined and what is real. The alien abduction phenomenon is attributed to improper use of regressive hypnosis.
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra

pegembara
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Re: what happens after death?

Post by pegembara » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:59 am

Chris[/quote]
Why is there a gap in memory resulting from death consciousness? Like all people, I can't remember my previous life or infancy, and I can barely remember early childhood. But I can remember everything after that clearly. When you talk about rebirth-linking consciousness, how is this similar or different from what we might conventionally call "consciousness" or "mind"? Does it include long-term memory and, if so, why the gap between lives?[/quote]

Life Before Life: A Scientific Investigation of Children's Memories of Previous Lives[1] is a 2005 book written by psychiatrist Jim Tucker, which presents an overview of more than 40 years of research at the University of Virginia Division of Personality Studies into children's reports of past life memories. The book also discusses "birthmarks and birth defects that match those of a deceased person who is identified by the child".[2] The foreword to the book is written by Ian Stevenson.[3]
This book challenges the notion that consciousness is only the result of a functioning brain. It suggests that consciousness can be considered separately from the brain, which provides a basis for claims of reincarnation.[2] The book also discusses objections to reincarnation: the paucity of persons who actually claim to remember a past life, the fragility of memories, the population explosion, the mind-body problem, fraud, and others.[3]
Tucker recognizes that none of the cases examined are perfect, and "faulty memory by informants" is seen to be the "best normal explanation for many of the cases" reviewed in the book.[4] Tucker discusses this, referring to several relevant studies which have been done, and argues that there is no support for the conclusion that informants must be remembering statements or events incorrectly.[4]
Tucker basically agrees with Ian Stevenson who said "reincarnation is the best -- even though not the only -- explanation for the stronger cases we have investigated".[5] Tucker recognizes that this may seem to be an "astounding statement" to some readers -- that "memories, emotions and physical injuries can sometimes carry over from one life to the next".[5] However, he argues that this is no more astounding than many currently accepted ideas in physics seemed to be when they were originally proposed.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Before_Life" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Buddha did teach kamma as encompassing more than 1 life

6. "Ananda, there are four kinds of persons existing in the world. What four?

(i) "Here some person kills living beings, takes what is not given, misconducts himself in sexual desires, speaks falsehood, speaks maliciously, speaks harshly, gossips, is covetous, is ill-willed, and has wrong view.4 On the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in the states of deprivation, in an unhappy destination, in perdition, in hell.

(ii) "But here some person kills living beings... and has wrong view. On the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in a happy destination, in the heavenly world.

(iii) "Here some person abstains from killing living beings, from taking what is not given, from misconduct in sexual desires, from false speech, from malicious speech, from harsh speech, from gossip, he is not covetous, is not ill-willed, and has right view.5 On the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in a happy destination, in the heavenly world.

(iv) "But here some person abstains from killing living beings... and has right view. On the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in the states of deprivation, in an unhappy destination, in perdition, in hell.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nymo.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


When we say that whatever we do intentionally is Kamma, that whatever we intentionally do leaves an imprint in our stream of consciousness. This imprint no matter how subtle is Never forgotten. This is why when one is under hypnosis, one is able to recall events long "Forgotten", and even past lives.

The stream of consciousness just keeps flowing on, every moment and act contributing further to it and changing it endlessly. Of course wholesome events change it positively!

You recall an event years and years ago despite you having made attempts to forget about it because of this reason. We are the result of all our past actions, good and bad, we are the heirs of our kamma! You may understand now why it is said that kamma no matter how 'latent' will come to fruition when the conditions are right. When the condition for your thought to appear is there, your thought appeared! Dreams included!


Whether one believes in rebirth or not is irrelevant as some of his followers attained arahantship without any knowledge of past lives. Physical interpretation is a matter of faith, as physical realms cannot be known. However, psychological interpretation is not a matter of faith and can be known.
Last edited by pegembara on Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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acinteyyo
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Re: what happens after death?

Post by acinteyyo » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:04 pm

Chris wrote: I have found this article by Bhikkhu Bodhi on Rebirth to be worth the read:
[...]
The Buddha explains that what we really are is a functionally unified combination of five aggregates.
The Buddha never explained that what we really are is a functionally unified combination of five aggregates! Neither are we a functionally unified combination of five aggregates nor we're not a functionally unified combination of five aggregates nor both nor not both.

best wishes, acinteyyo
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

Individual
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Re: what happens after death?

Post by Individual » Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:25 pm

pegembara wrote: Life Before Life: A Scientific Investigation of Children's Memories of Previous Lives[1] is a 2005 book written by psychiatrist Jim Tucker, which presents an overview of more than 40 years of research at the University of Virginia Division of Personality Studies into children's reports of past life memories. The book also discusses "birthmarks and birth defects that match those of a deceased person who is identified by the child".[2] The foreword to the book is written by Ian Stevenson.[3]
This book challenges the notion that consciousness is only the result of a functioning brain. It suggests that consciousness can be considered separately from the brain, which provides a basis for claims of reincarnation.[2] The book also discusses objections to reincarnation: the paucity of persons who actually claim to remember a past life, the fragility of memories, the population explosion, the mind-body problem, fraud, and others.[3]
Tucker recognizes that none of the cases examined are perfect, and "faulty memory by informants" is seen to be the "best normal explanation for many of the cases" reviewed in the book.[4] Tucker discusses this, referring to several relevant studies which have been done, and argues that there is no support for the conclusion that informants must be remembering statements or events incorrectly.[4]
Tucker basically agrees with Ian Stevenson who said "reincarnation is the best -- even though not the only -- explanation for the stronger cases we have investigated".[5] Tucker recognizes that this may seem to be an "astounding statement" to some readers -- that "memories, emotions and physical injuries can sometimes carry over from one life to the next".[5] However, he argues that this is no more astounding than many currently accepted ideas in physics seemed to be when they were originally proposed.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Before_Life" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm aware of this sort of research and it's pseudoscience. Most scientists don't take it seriously.
pegembara wrote: The Buddha did teach kamma as encompassing more than 1 life
Yet he also refuted eternalism and speculative soul-theories.
acinteyyo wrote:
Chris wrote: I have found this article by Bhikkhu Bodhi on Rebirth to be worth the read:
[...]
The Buddha explains that what we really are is a functionally unified combination of five aggregates.
The Buddha never explained that what we really are is a functionally unified combination of five aggregates! Neither are we a functionally unified combination of five aggregates nor we're not a functionally unified combination of five aggregates nor both nor not both.

best wishes, acinteyyo
Ack, I missed that! Thanks for catching it, Acinteyyo.

Bhikkhu Bodhi may have simply been speaking concisely. Stating Buddhist ideas in their full form often sounds too verbose.

If Bodhi were to elaborate, I think he might say, "What we conventionally regard as a self is actually a functionally unified combination of five aggregates."

It is often very easy, though, for people to conflate rebirth with the notion of a reincarnating self. I don't know what happens after death, while I have vague feelings, I have never seen a sufficient account or proof.
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra

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