starter wrote:Since the body and mind are ‘old kamma’ born of volition, I wonder why the Buddha classified bodily or mental feelings "originating from bile disorders... originating from phlegm disorders,.... originating from wind disorders....originating from an imbalance <of the three>.... produced by change of climate... produced by careless behavior... caused by assault..." other than results of kamma. It seems to me they are also results of old kamma. Since all our experience in the world are the results of the six senses born of volition, it seems to me that all we experience in the world are the results of old kamma. Probably "kamma" the Buddha taught in the vedanasamyutta sutta refers to new kamma?
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Metta to all!
I don't know whether you are wrong. But for sure you do not seem to be taking a very practical point of view here.
The Buddha, as I see it, gave a practical way of looking at the reality that presents itself, not trying to lay out precise mechanisms as you seem to be trying to construe, as in "all our experience are the results of the six senses born of volition -> all we experience in the world are the results of old kamma" in order to work out a complete "theory" like physicists would like to have (and always fail) for the material world.
So if a statement by the Buddha in that area seems imprecise I would not assume that there is something lacking. The whole path to liberation is about deconstructing the kamma process, not to work it out complete as a descriptive model, which the Buddha taught to be impossible. Always take workable chunks into consideration in the situation at hand when there is something subject to doubt. Always stay at the level presented and not make it more complicated, that, I'd say, is the hallmark of the whole practice to deconstruct the process of kamma. If it says "killing your mother or father is leading to hell" for example, that is a very rough level. There's no point in working it out more precisely. It would produce all the sankharas mentally for such cruel actions, just to understand why. It requires volition of the wrong sort. Not the way to go.
(Not to put your inquiry into the same category, but just to give a crude example.)
The Buddha warned not to speculate about the precise workings of kamma, as it will lead to madness and vexation. I take it that it is best to always stay with the descriptions given by the Buddha in this and that given situation and never make more of it. When people try to make more out of it on a more theoretical level there will always be the danger that this more will become more and more and more and more, not for the sake of liberating insight (deconstruction of the kamma process on a very practical level - on the level of present volition, working with the kamma that is present and consciously understood in this process of understanding
), but for the sake of constructing more complicated levels for the workings of kamma - which one will all have to work out for oneself. It is only adding layers of confusion.
So all statements by the Buddha about kamma are to be taken as they are given, for the purpose of deconstruction of kamma at the level at hand, not to be built upon to make it more complete. That is how I understand it to be workable, leading onward, towards liberating insight and the end of kamma.
Probably "kamma" the Buddha taught in the vedanasamyutta sutta refers to new kamma?
, I would say that the statements given in the vedanasamyutta, as well as what you quoted from S3.132 are practical provisional descriptions not to be pieced together constructively in a theoretical framework with descriptions given in other suttas to gain a more complete picture.
Further, beyond that dismissal, or cautionary considerations, one thing to refute in the theory on the level you presented: "all our experience in the world are the results of the six senses" is wrong. For example there is the sphere of nothingness, where the six senses disappear. There's no black, nor white, no form or color, no sight at all, no sound, no touch, no smell, no taste, no thought. But consciousness, experience.