Awareness as refuge?

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Awareness as refuge?

Post by Ngawang Drolma. » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:49 pm

Please pardon my rudeness in advance for slapping a Mahayana thingie in here.

But mindfulness as a form of refuge? What say you, my Theravadan friends?
I've never quite gone this far with stressing the importance of mindfulness.

Awareness is your refuge:

Awareness of the changingness of feelings,
of attitudes, of moods, of material change
and emotional change:

Stay with that, because it's a refuge that is
indestructible.
It's not something that changes.
It's a refuge you can trust in.

This refuge is not something that you create.
It's not a creation. It's not an ideal.
It's very practical and very simple, but
easily overlooked or not noticed.

When you're mindful,
you're beginning to notice,
it's like this.

Ajahn Sumedho

(Source: From "Intuitive Awareness", 2004 )

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tiltbillings
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Re: Awareness as refuge?

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:01 pm

But mindfulness as a form of refuge? What say you, my Theravadan friends?
I've never quite gone this far with stressing the importance of mindfulness.
Every other practice is subservient to mindfulness.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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clw_uk
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Re: Awareness as refuge?

Post by clw_uk » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:36 pm

Greetings


Ajahn Sumedho has a good talk on it here


http://www.dhammatalks.org.uk/sumed.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


The Dhamma talk is named "awareness is your refuge" if you would like to listen to it


Metta
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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Ben
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Re: Awareness as refuge?

Post by Ben » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:54 pm

Hi Drolma

Nice topic!
Ledi Sayadaw, a teacher within my own tradition, says something similar in his work Manual of the Excellent Man:
Taking refuge is of two kinds: by hearsay and by direct knowledge. Taking refuge through blind faith in the noble attributes of the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Saṅgha, but without right view, is by hearsay. It is so called because the act of taking refuge is not complete in so far as the worshipper has not actually “seen” the Buddha, the Dhamma, or the Saṅgha; he has not perceived the teaching; he has not been in contact with the teaching. In common parlance, he has not got the message.

Consider the Buddha’s admonition to Vakkali, the devoted bhikkhu who spent all his time in worshipful admiration of the Buddha, “Vakkali, he who does not see the Dhamma does not see me.” That is why taking refuge in the Three Gems without empirical knowledge of the Dhamma, i.e. insight into the arising and passing away of phenomena, relies on hearsay only. It is not taking refuge with direct knowledge.

Taking refuge with direct knowledge means imbibing the Buddha’s teaching with right view by perceiving the aggregates, the sense bases, and the elements, and their arising and cessation, which alone will destroy the delusion about a “self” and doubts about the Four Noble Truths. This kind of going for refuge is the real refuge, for the worshipper is actually in contact with the Three Gems.

“One understands suffering, its origin, its cessation and the Noble Eightfold Path leading to the end of suffering. This, indeed, is a secure refuge, this is the supreme refuge. Taking refuge in this, one gains release from the cycle of existences.” (Dhp. vv.191-192.)
For more: http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Ledi/Uttam ... efuge.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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floating_abu
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Re: Awareness as refuge?

Post by floating_abu » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:19 pm

clw_uk wrote:Greetings


Ajahn Sumedho has a good talk on it here


http://www.dhammatalks.org.uk/sumed.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


The Dhamma talk is named "awareness is your refuge" if you would like to listen to it


Metta
Love that guy. Thanks clw_uk. :thumbsup:

floating_abu
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Re: Awareness as refuge?

Post by floating_abu » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:21 pm

Ngawang Drolma wrote:Please pardon my rudeness in advance for slapping a Mahayana thingie in here.

But mindfulness as a form of refuge? What say you, my Theravadan friends?
I've never quite gone this far with stressing the importance of mindfulness.

Awareness is your refuge:

Awareness of the changingness of feelings,
of attitudes, of moods, of material change
and emotional change:

Stay with that, because it's a refuge that is
indestructible.
It's not something that changes.
It's a refuge you can trust in.

This refuge is not something that you create.
It's not a creation. It's not an ideal.
It's very practical and very simple, but
easily overlooked or not noticed.

When you're mindful,
you're beginning to notice,
it's like this.

Ajahn Sumedho

(Source: From "Intuitive Awareness", 2004 )
Luang Por is spot on.

:namaste:

rowyourboat
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Re: Awareness as refuge?

Post by rowyourboat » Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:45 pm

we take refuge in the dhamma- ie the practice of it, along with the other 2- the buddha and the sangha - so i see nothing wrong with this
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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retrofuturist
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Re: Awareness as refuge?

Post by retrofuturist » Thu May 14, 2009 1:20 am

Greetings Drolma,
Ngawang Drolma wrote:But mindfulness as a form of refuge? What say you, my Theravadan friends?
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's "refuge" of the status provided to the Triple Gem, however, mindfulness is an integral component of Dhamma... so when taking refuge in mindfulness, you're taking refuge in the Dhamma, and when you're taking refuge in the Dhamma, you're also taking refuge in the Buddha and the Sangha.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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pink_trike
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Re: Awareness as refuge?

Post by pink_trike » Thu May 14, 2009 1:24 am

Ben wrote:Hi Drolma

Nice topic!
Ledi Sayadaw, a teacher within my own tradition, says something similar in his work Manual of the Excellent Man:
Taking refuge is of two kinds: by hearsay and by direct knowledge. Taking refuge through blind faith in the noble attributes of the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Saṅgha, but without right view, is by hearsay. It is so called because the act of taking refuge is not complete in so far as the worshipper has not actually “seen” the Buddha, the Dhamma, or the Saṅgha; he has not perceived the teaching; he has not been in contact with the teaching. In common parlance, he has not got the message.

Consider the Buddha’s admonition to Vakkali, the devoted bhikkhu who spent all his time in worshipful admiration of the Buddha, “Vakkali, he who does not see the Dhamma does not see me.” That is why taking refuge in the Three Gems without empirical knowledge of the Dhamma, i.e. insight into the arising and passing away of phenomena, relies on hearsay only. It is not taking refuge with direct knowledge.

Taking refuge with direct knowledge means imbibing the Buddha’s teaching with right view by perceiving the aggregates, the sense bases, and the elements, and their arising and cessation, which alone will destroy the delusion about a “self” and doubts about the Four Noble Truths. This kind of going for refuge is the real refuge, for the worshipper is actually in contact with the Three Gems.

“One understands suffering, its origin, its cessation and the Noble Eightfold Path leading to the end of suffering. This, indeed, is a secure refuge, this is the supreme refuge. Taking refuge in this, one gains release from the cycle of existences.” (Dhp. vv.191-192.)
For more: http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Ledi/Uttam ... efuge.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kind regards

Ben
Great quote.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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