Are gods bored and can they meditate?

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Mahabrahma
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by Mahabrahma »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:13 am
Mahabrahma wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:13 am For example, the whole non-self meditation can be a very powerful way to open up this type of consciousness. Have you ever heard the Buddhist saying, "If there is no Self, there is no Other."?
never heard
Imagine you are asleep in a dream, you don't notice your consciousness as you are sleeping and laying in your bed, you only notice a dream consciousness. But you are both laying in your bed, and also in the dream, so you are experiencing two different states of being even though you are one person. Now imagine if you are awake and also dreaming at the same time, and your consciousness is in both places subjectively. In this point is there really an ontological difference between that and sleeping and dreaming, with regards to experiencing two different states at once? Now imagine more than one dream happening to you at the same time, your consciousness would be in all of the places you are in, but it would only be experiencing one encounter at a time because you may have closed your conscious mind to some of the phenomena you are experiencing for a variety of reasons. Think of this: you have a very fast subconscious and unconscious mind, yet you are not experiencing it in full in all it's places in an open way, in fact there are thousands of things going on in your mind right now that you are not consciously experiencing, yet they are a form of consciousness and are you. So in the same way it is possible for one person to be in many, many places at once by expanding their consciousness into another life. For example right now you could decide to take birth somewhere while completely respecting the life of your current being, it has the same ethics as time travel for example--two people who are the same person at one time. Avalokakitesvara works in such a fashion, a Bodhisattva that takes birth from the Brahma Heaven down to the animal realms just to help those who call upon Him, yet He is still the same one being. And also there are Spiritual ways for advanced Buddhists to expand out of their own bodies and be in multiple places at once, Krishna who Vaishnavas consider to be Buddha is documented to have done this many times in Vedic Scriptures, including marrying 16,108 wives during the same timeframe expanding Himself all from the same body. Many Buddhists do similar things, but people tend to hold this kind of thing as an esoteric truth.
Last edited by Mahabrahma on Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by Mahabrahma »

cappuccino wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:23 am
Mahabrahma wrote: and it also isn't incorrect to say that there is no Self
no self is the opposite extreme of self


the middle of not-self is correct


in terms of this teaching
I fully agree with you, that is the Middle-Way, but there are many views that the Middle-Way has helped clear up as accurate as well, in wake of it's being practiced by so many. That is why I am so glad at the success of Buddha.
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by cappuccino »

Mahabrahma wrote: but there are many views … accurate as well
the teaching of no self…… is flawed
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

ImageImage
Without resistance in all four directions,
content with whatever you get,
enduring troubles with no dismay,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
But if they hit you with a stick...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a knife.'..."
"But if they hit you with a knife...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't take my life with a sharp knife.'..."
SN35.88
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:33 am
rhinoceroshorn wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:24 pm Greetings
In this sutta from Deva Saṃyutta, a deva praises the Buddha for (re)discovering jhānas.

As the rest of this section of Saṃyutta Nikāya, this sutta features a short talk between the Buddha and a deva. Pañcālacaṇḍa is a deva.
hey rhino,

so 4 jhanas were not practised by sage of indian astetic tradition or brahmins?
They did. That's why I wrote (re)discovering.
Without resistance in all four directions,
content with whatever you get,
enduring troubles with no dismay,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
But if they hit you with a stick...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a knife.'..."
"But if they hit you with a knife...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't take my life with a sharp knife.'..."
SN35.88
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confusedlayman
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by confusedlayman »

Mahabrahma wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:45 am
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:13 am
Mahabrahma wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:13 am For example, the whole non-self meditation can be a very powerful way to open up this type of consciousness. Have you ever heard the Buddhist saying, "If there is no Self, there is no Other."?
never heard
Imagine you are asleep in a dream, you don't notice your consciousness as you are sleeping and laying in your bed, you only notice a dream consciousness. But you are both laying in your bed, and also in the dream, so you are experiencing two different states of being even though you are one person. Now imagine if you are awake and also dreaming at the same time, and your consciousness is in both places subjectively. In this point is there really an ontological difference between that and sleeping and dreaming, with regards to experiencing two different states at once? Now imagine more than one dream happening to you at the same time, your consciousness would be in all of the places you are in, but it would only be experiencing one encounter at a time because you may have closed your conscious mind to some of the phenomena you are experiencing for a variety of reasons. Think of this: you have a very fast subconscious and unconscious mind, yet you are not experiencing it in full in all it's places in an open way, in fact there are thousands of things going on in your mind right now that you are not consciously experiencing, yet they are a form of consciousness and are you. So in the same way it is possible for one person to be in many, many places at once by expanding their consciousness into another life. For example right now you could decide to take birth somewhere while completely respecting the life of your current being, it has the same ethics as time travel for example--two people who are the same person at one time. Avalokakitesvara works in such a fashion, a Bodhisattva that takes birth from the Brahma Heaven down to the animal realms just to help those who call upon Him, yet He is still the same one being. And also there are Spiritual ways for advanced Buddhists to expand out of their own bodies and be in multiple places at once, Krishna who Vaishnavas consider to be Buddha is documented to have done this many times in Vedic Scriptures, including marrying 16,108 wives during the same timeframe expanding Himself all from the same body. Many Buddhists do similar things, but people tend to hold this kind of thing as an esoteric truth.
during dreaming there is conciousness of one thing, there is no conciousness of dream and reality at same time... there cant be two conciousness at same time

since there is one conciousness at a given time, if there is clinging there is one existance..

even conventionally when u dream u r in dream world not in this world
dont think
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by Mahabrahma »

cappuccino wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:55 am
Mahabrahma wrote: but there are many views … accurate as well
the teaching of no self…… is flawed
The teaching of non-self has been widely misinterpreted as no-self, in that way there are some misunderstandings. But still, when one meditates that there is no Self they can do powerful Vipassana. There are many people who teach no Self and I personally see it and even non-self as an Expedient Means and step for someone to get to the understanding of who they truly are and the desired and to the desired goal of Nirvana and Enlightenment. I don't think it's a flawed teaching, but like many things in Buddhism it is a step on a staircase towards higher understanding of the Transcendental senses and not accepting oneself as the material body, but the Spirit within, which many people during Buddha's time have had trouble in understanding because of atheistic or agnostic views. The Middle-Way teaches that we should not go to the extreme of seeing the Self as the body, and also not go to the extreme of seeing the Self as not the body, ultimately the Self is Transcendental to the body and intellect, but can easily be dissolved by a certain type of meditation. The soul, however, cannot be and is your constant existence. Your consciousness may be full of impermanent things, but your life is going on forever, it is always going on despite the transmigration of consciousness and the process of life and death, that is what is meant by the soul and why people consider it Eternal.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by Mahabrahma »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:47 am during dreaming there is conciousness of one thing, there is no conciousness of dream and reality at same time... there cant be two conciousness at same time

since there is one conciousness at a given time, if there is clinging there is one existance..

even conventionally when u dream u r in dream world not in this world
Actually you are in an unconscious state during that type of dreaming, and there is a type of consciousness to unconsciousness. And during sleep you are both in your sleeping location experiencing something in an unconscious way as well as the dream world. Just because you're not obviously aware doesn't mean you aren't there. It is possible for example to communicate with a sleeping person, and their body still responds to stimulus. They don't stop existing in their body when they go to sleep, you understand this perfectly. In the same way, like I said, it is possible to be awake in two places at once with the same paradigm as it is possible to be asleep and in a dream at once (we understand them to be synonymous), only experiencing one consciousness at a time in both places. The consciousness is simply of a different nature. No one can take who you are from you if you are a good person. It is possible to dream unconsciously as you know as well, and have a plethora of things going on in your unconscious mind when you are awake and walking around. Take this as a type of metaphor of how one person can be in multiple places, and multiple bodies at once, how you don't have to open your consciousness to your entire being to experience such a phenomena.
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by confusedlayman »

Mahabrahma wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:01 am
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:47 am during dreaming there is conciousness of one thing, there is no conciousness of dream and reality at same time... there cant be two conciousness at same time

since there is one conciousness at a given time, if there is clinging there is one existance..

even conventionally when u dream u r in dream world not in this world
Actually you are in an unconscious state during that type of dreaming, and there is a type of consciousness to unconsciousness. And during sleep you are both in your sleeping location experiencing something in an unconscious way as well as the dream world. Just because you're not obviously aware doesn't mean you aren't there. It is possible for example to communicate with a sleeping person, and their body still responds to stimulus. They don't stop existing in their body when they go to sleep, you understand this perfectly. In the same way, like I said, it is possible to be awake in two places at once with the same paradigm as it is possible to be asleep and in a dream at once (we understand them to be synonymous), only experiencing one consciousness at a time in both places. The consciousness is simply of a different nature. No one can take who you are from you if you are a good person. It is possible to dream unconsciously as you know as well, and have a plethora of things going on in your unconscious mind when you are awake and walking around. Take this as a type of metaphor of how one person can be in multiple places, and multiple bodies at once, how you don't have to open your consciousness to your entire being to experience such a phenomena.
If there is no concious in dream how can i know if i had dream..

Also if im unconciius, how can i be concious of dream?

If im conciius of dream how can i be unconcious at same time?
dont think
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by Pulsar »

rhinoceroshorn wrote
ImageImage....
O well! the images do not copy of Mahabrahma and Cappucino, and I have zero skills
in this kind of thing, I don't even know how to change the font, to make it so large that each letter seemingly acquires a self of its own. We cannot breathe self into the Buddha's 'Atta' by calling it spirit, or soul. However a rose by any other name is still a rose, a different matter.

The images placed side by side of Mahabrahma and Cappucino are flawlesssly assembled. Pictures speak better than a zillion words, how flawless anatta is. I just used the Pali word so that there is no eel-wriggling here, that is resorted to in English, by clever people.
Seriously dear rhinoceroshorn, how did you manage that? to impose the images side by side, this is very entertaining.
With love :candle:
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by Mahabrahma »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:22 am If there is no concious in dream how can i know if i had dream..

Also if im unconciius, how can i be concious of dream?

If im conciius of dream how can i be unconcious at same time?
It is because you are able to work on different levels of your consciousness at the same time, without all of them being always openly aware of the different levels of consciousness simultaneously, yet they are still aware but just not in an open way every time. Just because you don't remember something doesn't mean it didn't happen, and just because you aren't thinking you are doing something you are doing doesn't mean you aren't doing it. Everything that comes from your consciousness comes from you, so just because you aren't aware of yourself in another body doesn't mean your consciousness isn't in that body, just like you may not be aware of every single thing that is going on in your conscious and unconscious mind yet it's still going on. You know it's going on however, because your existence is determined by who you are.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by Mahabrahma »

Pulsar wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:22 am rhinoceroshorn wrote
ImageImage....
O well! the images do not copy of Mahabrahma and Cappucino, and I have zero skills
in this kind of thing, I don't even know how to change the font, to make it so large that each letter seemingly acquires a self of its own. We cannot breathe self into the Buddha's 'Atta' by calling it spirit, or soul. However a rose by any other name is still a rose, a different matter.

The images placed side by side of Mahabrahma and Cappucino are flawlesssly assembled. Pictures speak better than a zillion words, how flawless anatta is. I just used the Pali word so that there is no eel-wriggling here, that is resorted to in English, by clever people.
Seriously dear rhinoceroshorn, how did you manage that? to impose the images side by side, this is very entertaining.
With love :candle:
Would you be surprised that words, letters, and calligraphy similar to Buddhist Mudras and Statues of the Buddha have a consciousness to them? In fact everything around us is a product or expansion, or an extension of a certain type of consciousness. There is not such a thing as "dead matter." One of the first things the Buddha said after coming down from His meditation at Gaya was that we are all the same consciousness, and a powerful Buddhist saying is that: All phenomena from the very first have of themselves constantly borne the marks of tranquil extinction. Meaning that everything has the capacity for Buddhahood, and that is the only way to rescue the Saha world. There is consciousness in the world around you that you may not notice, such as in electricity or rocks, or Buddhist statues like I said. So in that way some have linked the concept of soul to consciousness, as consciousness is a symptom of the soul.
Last edited by Mahabrahma on Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by confusedlayman »

Mahabrahma wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:39 pm
Pulsar wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:22 am rhinoceroshorn wrote
ImageImage....
O well! the images do not copy of Mahabrahma and Cappucino, and I have zero skills
in this kind of thing, I don't even know how to change the font, to make it so large that each letter seemingly acquires a self of its own. We cannot breathe self into the Buddha's 'Atta' by calling it spirit, or soul. However a rose by any other name is still a rose, a different matter.

The images placed side by side of Mahabrahma and Cappucino are flawlesssly assembled. Pictures speak better than a zillion words, how flawless anatta is. I just used the Pali word so that there is no eel-wriggling here, that is resorted to in English, by clever people.
Seriously dear rhinoceroshorn, how did you manage that? to impose the images side by side, this is very entertaining.
With love :candle:
Would you be surprised that words, letters, and calligraphy similar to Buddhist Mudras and Statues of the Buddha have a consciousness to them? In fact everything around us is a product or expansion, or an extension of a certain type of consciousness. There is not such a thing as "dead matter." One of the first things the Buddha said after coming down from His meditation at Gaya was that we are all the same consciousness, and a powerful Buddhist saying is that: All phenomena from the very first have of themselves constantly borne the marks of tranquil extinction. Meaning that everything has the capacity for Buddhahood, and that is the only way to rescue the Saha world. There is consciousness in the world around you that you may not notice, such as in electricity or rocks, or Buddhist statues like I said. So in that way some have linked the concept of soul to consciousness, as consciousness is a symptom of the soul.
Show me sutta source
dont think
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by Mahabrahma »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:44 pm
Mahabrahma wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:39 pm
Pulsar wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:22 am rhinoceroshorn wrote



O well! the images do not copy of Mahabrahma and Cappucino, and I have zero skills
in this kind of thing, I don't even know how to change the font, to make it so large that each letter seemingly acquires a self of its own. We cannot breathe self into the Buddha's 'Atta' by calling it spirit, or soul. However a rose by any other name is still a rose, a different matter.

The images placed side by side of Mahabrahma and Cappucino are flawlesssly assembled. Pictures speak better than a zillion words, how flawless anatta is. I just used the Pali word so that there is no eel-wriggling here, that is resorted to in English, by clever people.
Seriously dear rhinoceroshorn, how did you manage that? to impose the images side by side, this is very entertaining.
With love :candle:
Would you be surprised that words, letters, and calligraphy similar to Buddhist Mudras and Statues of the Buddha have a consciousness to them? In fact everything around us is a product or expansion, or an extension of a certain type of consciousness. There is not such a thing as "dead matter." One of the first things the Buddha said after coming down from His meditation at Gaya was that we are all the same consciousness, and a powerful Buddhist saying is that: All phenomena from the very first have of themselves constantly borne the marks of tranquil extinction. Meaning that everything has the capacity for Buddhahood, and that is the only way to rescue the Saha world. There is consciousness in the world around you that you may not notice, such as in electricity or rocks, or Buddhist statues like I said. So in that way some have linked the concept of soul to consciousness, as consciousness is a symptom of the soul.
Show me sutta source
Chapter 2 of the Lotus Sutra contains the quote that I am referring to.

It is well understood that atoms that make up parts of our world have a certain type of energy to them, electrons, neutrons, etc. In the same way there are infinite amounts of particles and energies as well as Forces and levels of being comprising the world around us and also because the thusness of the world is composed by consciousness, your mind for example, in it's pure state, is infinite, you are not a limited being. With enough Spiritual training it is possible for you to create entire Universes, just like a Brahma King, who nonetheless serves the Buddha. If a Buddha can manifest something with creative force with His or Her mind such as a limb or a piece of fruit, it is to be understood that they are doing it with the power of their mind. There is a Buddhist saying that the entire world is a product of the mind, and if it is a product of the mind then everything must have a level of conscious attribute to it. For example, when people drink out of a cup or put on a shirt their consciousness shifts as into that object and it becomes theirs. The whole point of Buddhism is to take care of ourselves and other beings with Metta, and to cultivate good roots so we can attain Enlightenment, and this can only be done with compassion towards each other and the world around us. It is wise to treat everything with respect because everything around us is a product of mind, and the mind should be treated with pure Metta.
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by cappuccino »

Mahabrahma wrote: But still, when one meditates that there is no Self they can do powerful Vipassana.
no self is not the teaching


Maha Brahma!
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