About Buddhist hell . .

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Dinsdale
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Re: About Buddhist hell . .

Post by Dinsdale » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:07 am

santa100 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:33 pm
jbrooks79 wrote:I have this idea what Christian hell looks like, but are there pictures, or descriptions of Buddhist hell, that are reliable, from Buddha, or good sources . .
They're both similar in the sense that hell is a concrete realm of existence just like the animal or the human realms. And the Buddha quite explicitly said so throughout his Teaching, in many suttas with the common stock phrase:
MN 129 wrote:Having done bad things by way of body, speech, and mind, when their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in a place of loss, a bad place, the underworld, hell.
Now comes the big difference, unlike the Christian hell where the victims are subjected to eternal damnation, those in the Buddhist hell will get a chance to be reborn again in one of the 31 planes of existence once one's served his sentence.
Yes, in the suttas it's more like a game of snakes and ladders, moving between various realms, according to kamma.
There is very little support in the suttas for the idea that the realms were intended metaphorically as states of mind, though predictably this is a popular view with the skeptics. But if you impose a modern mind-set onto ancient texts, you will invariably miss the point. It's like an atheist trying to read the Bible, they just wouldn't get it. I think that to really understand an ancient text, you need to make some effort to understand or imagine the mindset of the authors, and to understand the cultural context.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

confusedlayman
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Re: About Buddhist hell . .

Post by confusedlayman » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:08 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:07 am
santa100 wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:33 pm
jbrooks79 wrote:I have this idea what Christian hell looks like, but are there pictures, or descriptions of Buddhist hell, that are reliable, from Buddha, or good sources . .
They're both similar in the sense that hell is a concrete realm of existence just like the animal or the human realms. And the Buddha quite explicitly said so throughout his Teaching, in many suttas with the common stock phrase:
MN 129 wrote:Having done bad things by way of body, speech, and mind, when their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in a place of loss, a bad place, the underworld, hell.
Now comes the big difference, unlike the Christian hell where the victims are subjected to eternal damnation, those in the Buddhist hell will get a chance to be reborn again in one of the 31 planes of existence once one's served his sentence.
Yes, in the suttas it's more like a game of snakes and ladders, moving between various realms, according to kamma.
There is very little support in the suttas for the idea that the realms were intended metaphorically as states of mind, though predictably this is a popular view with the skeptics. But if you impose a modern mind-set onto ancient texts, you will invariably miss the point. It's like an atheist trying to read the Bible, they just wouldn't get it. I think that to really understand an ancient text, you need to make some effort to understand or imagine the mindset of the authors, and to understand the cultural context.
those who think other realms dont exist are holding wrong view. they ssupport the view that everything ends in this one physical death and no more continution of fruits of karma which didnt fruit this life. it also contradicts monks who have seen their past life and can also see other life and changed their lifestyle based on that by striving for enlightment.
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

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Aloka
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Re: About Buddhist hell . .

Post by Aloka » Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:35 am

confusedlayman wrote: it also contradicts monks who have seen their past life and can also see other life and changed their lifestyle based on that by striving for enlightment.
Can you share the details of your own personal conversations with "monks who have seen their past life" and can also see other's past lives, please? What did they actually "see"? Did they say it was visions or hallucinations of some description ?

No videos or quotes from articles or books please, they're not examples of personal conversations!

I recall asking a Tibetan teacher (who was a Tulku) if he remembered his past lives and he said : "No".


:anjali:

confusedlayman
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Re: About Buddhist hell . .

Post by confusedlayman » Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:08 am

Aloka wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:35 am
confusedlayman wrote: it also contradicts monks who have seen their past life and can also see other life and changed their lifestyle based on that by striving for enlightment.
Can you share the details of your own personal conversations with "monks who have seen their past life" and can also see other's past lives, please? What did they actually "see"? Did they say it was visions or hallucinations of some description ?

No videos or quotes please, they're not examples of personal conversations!

I recall asking a Tibetan teacher (who was a Tulku) if he remembered his past lives and he said : "No".


:anjali:
Ajhan maha bua, ven moggalana, buddha itself, reincarnation of dalai lama etc
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

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Aloka
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Re: About Buddhist hell . .

Post by Aloka » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:26 pm

confusedlayman wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:08 am
Aloka wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:35 am
confusedlayman wrote: it also contradicts monks who have seen their past life and can also see other life and changed their lifestyle based on that by striving for enlightment.
Can you share the details of your own personal conversations with "monks who have seen their past life" and can also see other's past lives, please? What did they actually "see"? Did they say it was visions or hallucinations of some description ?

No videos or quotes please, they're not examples of personal conversations!

I recall once asking a Tibetan teacher (who was a Tulku) if he remembered his past lives and he said : "No".


:anjali:
Ajhan maha bua, ven moggalana, buddha itself, reincarnation of dalai lama etc

That isn't answering my question!

.

confusedlayman
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Re: About Buddhist hell . .

Post by confusedlayman » Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:17 pm

Aloka wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:26 pm
confusedlayman wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:08 am
Aloka wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:35 am


Can you share the details of your own personal conversations with "monks who have seen their past life" and can also see other's past lives, please? What did they actually "see"? Did they say it was visions or hallucinations of some description ?

No videos or quotes please, they're not examples of personal conversations!

I recall once asking a Tibetan teacher (who was a Tulku) if he remembered his past lives and he said : "No".


:anjali:
Ajhan maha bua, ven moggalana, buddha itself, reincarnation of dalai lama etc

That isn't answering my question!

.
I never spome to monk but seeing video of great monks is true story unless u know for sure its false. also monks dont talk about this if u ask straight
Last edited by confusedlayman on Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

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cappuccino
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Re: About Buddhist hell . .

Post by cappuccino » Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:26 pm

Aloka wrote: I recall asking a Tibetan teacher (who was a Tulku) if he remembered his past lives and he said : "No".
A tulku is a reincarnate custodian of a specific lineage of teachings in Tibetan Buddhism

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Aloka
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Re: About Buddhist hell . .

Post by Aloka » Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:26 am

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:26 pm
Aloka wrote: I recall asking a Tibetan teacher (who was a Tulku) if he remembered his past lives and he said : "No".
A tulku is a reincarnate custodian of a specific lineage of teachings in Tibetan Buddhism
Cappuccino, unlike you, I was deeply involved offline with Tibetan Buddhism and its teachings and practices for years, before eventually taking an interest in Theravada. The teacher I said I spoke to was my own late teacher. Its therefore extremely likely that I know a lot more about Vajrayana and tulkus than you do yourself, because I've never just been an internet Buddhist. My teacher was simply being honest, he didn't remember any past lives.

Stop making unnecessary comments after my posts please, and have a nice day.


.

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Kusala
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Re: About Buddhist hell . .

Post by Kusala » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:55 am

cappuccino wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:24 pm
I hadn't thought about it until Bhante Anandajoti brought it up @ 5:50 - 8:00...could it be that God/Yahweh/Allah is none other than Mara? If we look at the old testament, God is a jealous and vengeful being...Mara is also a jealous and vengeful being...



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cappuccino
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Re: About Buddhist hell . .

Post by cappuccino » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:43 pm

Kusala wrote: could it be that God/Yahweh/Allah is none other than Mara?
No, he's the Great Brahma

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retrofuturist
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Re: About Buddhist hell . .

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:43 pm

Greetings,
cappuccino wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:43 pm
Kusala wrote: could it be that God/Yahweh/Allah is none other than Mara?
No, he's the Great Brahma
All of which is just speculation....

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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cappuccino
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Re: About Buddhist hell . .

Post by cappuccino » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:24 am

retrofuturist wrote: Greetings,
cappuccino wrote:
Kusala wrote: could it be that God/Yahweh/Allah is none other than Mara?
No, he's the Great Brahma
All of which is just speculation....
good logic

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