on Sila - where do you practice "right speech" online?

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ctcrnitv
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on Sila - where do you practice "right speech" online?

Post by ctcrnitv »

There seem to be so many places where one could practice abusive or divisive speech online. A lot of what I see online is bickering, of which I've definitely had my share participating in too.

When I look around, there don't seem to be that many places to practice right speech. Of course this forum and other Buddhist forums, but what else? Where do you find many opportunities to practice right speech online? Let's discuss right speech hacks.
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DooDoot
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Re: on Sila - where do you practice "right speech" online?

Post by DooDoot »

Respectably, I think the idea of "abusive" & "divisive" speech need to be defined. For some, mere disagreement is abuse & divisive.
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Kim OHara
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Re: on Sila - where do you practice "right speech" online?

Post by Kim OHara »

ctcrnitv wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:59 am Where do you find many opportunities to practice right speech online?
Everywhere - even facebook. :jawdrop:

No exceptions.

:namaste:
Kim
JohnK
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Re: on Sila - where do you practice "right speech" online?

Post by JohnK »

Kim OHara wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:35 am
ctcrnitv wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:59 am Where do you find many opportunities to practice right speech online?
Everywhere - even facebook. :jawdrop:

No exceptions.

:namaste:
Kim
Exactly, Kim! Everywhere. ONline and OFFline. No exceptions.
I don't recall right speech being context-dependent.
Recall the simile of the saw -- even then!
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the internet creating friction. [based on Sn4:9,v.847]
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Sam Vara
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Re: on Sila - where do you practice "right speech" online?

Post by Sam Vara »

DooDoot wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:54 am Respectably, I think the idea of "abusive" & "divisive" speech need to be defined. For some, mere disagreement is abuse & divisive.
Agreed. The definitions that most people use in practice (i.e. regardless of what the Buddha actually intended) seem to be a mixture of the intention of the speaker, and the degree to which the person spoken to claims to be offended. A person could have the best of intentions, and yet another person with different standards could consider that to be abusive.

I think the only true test of this is intention; and this is the kammically significant part. In the case of divisive speech there is enough in the suttas to rely on the subjective aspect of intention:
Abandoning divisive speech he abstains from divisive speech. What he has heard here he does not tell there to break those people apart from these people here. What he has heard there he does not tell here to break these people apart from those people there. Thus reconciling those who have broken apart or cementing those who are united, he loves concord, delights in concord, enjoys concord, speaks things that create concord
although we need to be aware that in situations where the hearer is confused or of a different culture, etc., then the outcome might be less than concordant.

The same sutta AN 10.176) is less reliant on intention for abusive speech:
Abandoning abusive speech, he abstains from abusive speech. He speaks words that are soothing to the ear, that are affectionate, that go to the heart, that are polite, appealing & pleasing to people at large
This seems to rely more on the effects that the hearer perceives. But elsewhere there is reference to intention:
This verbal act I want to perform — would it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Is it an unskillful verbal act, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it would lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it would be an unskillful verbal act with painful consequences, painful results, then any verbal act of that sort is absolutely unfit for you to do
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

What seems to be worse than mere abusive speech is the speech of a person who falsely claims to feel abused, in order to shame someone with good intentions they disagree with.
DarrenM
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Re: on Sila - where do you practice "right speech" online?

Post by DarrenM »

It’s very difficult at times to see the intention of posters because we can’t really put a tone to our words online. That’s why a little of emoji use at times can show your intention when the post may seem harsh otherwise.. :smile:
“Householder, you have provided the community of monks with robes, alms food, lodgings, & medicinal requisites for the sick, but you shouldn’t rest content with the thought, ‘We have provided the community of monks with robes, alms food, lodgings, & medicinal requisites for the sick.’ So you should train yourself, ‘Let’s periodically enter & remain in seclusion & rapture.’ That’s how you should train yourself.”
AN 5.176- Rapture
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Sam Vara
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Re: on Sila - where do you practice "right speech" online?

Post by Sam Vara »

DarrenM wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:31 am It’s very difficult at times to see the intention of posters because we can’t really put a tone to our words online. That’s why a little of emoji use at times can show your intention when the post may seem harsh otherwise.. :smile:
Agreed, but there is also the case where someone might use emojis to express bad intentions, or to pretend that their words are less harmful than they really are. Chaucer writes of "The smiler with the knife under the cloak", and there are updated versions...
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Kim OHara
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Re: on Sila - where do you practice "right speech" online?

Post by Kim OHara »

Sam Vara wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:14 am
DarrenM wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:31 am It’s very difficult at times to see the intention of posters because we can’t really put a tone to our words online. That’s why a little of emoji use at times can show your intention when the post may seem harsh otherwise.. :smile:
Agreed, but there is also the case where someone might use emojis to express bad intentions, or to pretend that their words are less harmful than they really are. Chaucer writes of "The smiler with the knife under the cloak", and there are updated versions...
That's basically just lying by other means, and shouldn't change our own behaviour.

But I do agree that emojis are useful in situations like this, where we're talking to people of vastly difference backgrounds and English-language competence, and we don't have the assistance of the normal visual cues we rely on in face-to-face conversations.

:namaste:
Kim
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Sam Vara
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Re: on Sila - where do you practice "right speech" online?

Post by Sam Vara »

Kim OHara wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:53 am
Sam Vara wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:14 am
DarrenM wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:31 am It’s very difficult at times to see the intention of posters because we can’t really put a tone to our words online. That’s why a little of emoji use at times can show your intention when the post may seem harsh otherwise.. :smile:
Agreed, but there is also the case where someone might use emojis to express bad intentions, or to pretend that their words are less harmful than they really are. Chaucer writes of "The smiler with the knife under the cloak", and there are updated versions...
That's basically just lying by other means, and shouldn't change our own behaviour.
Indeed, but we often need to sharpen our discernment, as it adds an extra layer to communication.
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