Nibbana

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Myotai
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Nibbana

Post by Myotai » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:00 pm

I'm sorry if this has been covered before - I suspect it has as it's​ a question I'll wager many have pondered before.

Many of the descriptions I read of the final goal seem very much like a complete anihilation rather than an end worthy of so much effort. Having a good solid practice living in a forest in Thailand seems favourable to no sentience at all.

What have I missed in my understanding?

Thanks everyone...

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Nicolas
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Re: Nibbana

Post by Nicolas » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:06 pm

Life is a meaningless repetition of old age, sickness, death, and constant craving for impermanent things which never satisfy us.
Practicing is effort. Practicing, one still needs to feed and still suffers the elements, on top of the issues mentioned above.

SarathW
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Re: Nibbana

Post by SarathW » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:16 pm

Do you find any happiness in following Buddhas teaching?
If yes, can you gain the same happiness with other means?
If you can gain the same happiness in other means, are there any room for improvement (increase) that happiness?
How permanent is that happiness?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

santa100
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Re: Nibbana

Post by santa100 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:23 pm

Myotai wrote:What have I missed in my understanding?
Imagine a man's been crossing a big desert for many days. He's totally exhausted due to unbearable heat, thirst, and hunger. Good thing is he's just gotten some info. and direction from a kind-hearted man to a pond where there're shades, food, and water. Take a guess what'd be his priority at the moment: focusing all his heart and mind into reaching that pond, OR thinking about what lies beyond that pond. Now imagine a man sitting comfortably in his room, sipping hot tea, also heard from a kind-hearted man about some pond where there're shades, food, and water. To this man, whether there's something beyond the pond or not would serve no real purpose other than some mere entertaining idea to pass his time, would it not?

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Sam Vara
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Re: Nibbana

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:35 pm

santa100 wrote:
Myotai wrote:What have I missed in my understanding?
Imagine a man's been crossing a big desert for many days. He's totally exhausted due to unbearable heat, thirst, and hunger. Good thing is he's just gotten some info. and direction from a kind-hearted man to a pond where there're shades, food, and water. Take a guess what'd be his priority at the moment: focusing all his heart and mind into reaching that pond, OR thinking about what lies beyond that pond. Now imagine a man sitting comfortably in his room, sipping hot tea, also heard from a kind-hearted man about some pond where there're shades, food, and water. To this man, whether there's something beyond the pond or not would serve no real purpose other than some mere entertaining idea to pass his time, would it not?
Excellent post. As thought-provoking as it is apposite.

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Aloka
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Re: Nibbana

Post by Aloka » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:05 pm

.

Hi Myotai,

I recommend reading "The Island - An Anthology of the Buddha's Teachings on Nibbana" by Ajahn Pasanno & Ajahn Amaro, which also has an introduction on page X111 from Ajahn Sumedho. (Available in epub, pdf, & mobi)

http://www.amaravati.org/dhamma-books/the-island/


:anjali:

SarathW
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Re: Nibbana

Post by SarathW » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:33 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
santa100 wrote:
Myotai wrote:What have I missed in my understanding?
Imagine a man's been crossing a big desert for many days. He's totally exhausted due to unbearable heat, thirst, and hunger. Good thing is he's just gotten some info. and direction from a kind-hearted man to a pond where there're shades, food, and water. Take a guess what'd be his priority at the moment: focusing all his heart and mind into reaching that pond, OR thinking about what lies beyond that pond. Now imagine a man sitting comfortably in his room, sipping hot tea, also heard from a kind-hearted man about some pond where there're shades, food, and water. To this man, whether there's something beyond the pond or not would serve no real purpose other than some mere entertaining idea to pass his time, would it not?
Excellent post. As thought-provoking as it is apposite.
Agree!
But the problem is this man in this desert has no faith in the kind-hearted man.
Another problem is there are many other so called kind-hearted men give him different direction.

:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DNS
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Re: Nibbana

Post by DNS » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:07 pm

Myotai wrote:I'm sorry if this has been covered before - I suspect it has as it's​ a question I'll wager many have pondered before.
The great Nibbana debate:
https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=22409

1782 posts and counting! Happy reading. :reading:

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Zom
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Re: Nibbana

Post by Zom » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:17 pm

Many of the descriptions I read of the final goal seem very much like a complete anihilation rather than an end worthy of so much effort.
Ask yourself why you see this as something bad.

SarathW
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Re: Nibbana

Post by SarathW » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:42 pm

Ask yourself why you see this as something bad.
I think he does not see this life as Anicca, Dukkha and Anatta.
It appears he is seeking everlasting unchanging happiness in this world. (via six senses)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Caodemarte
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Re: Nibbana

Post by Caodemarte » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:54 pm

Myotai wrote:I'm sorry if this has been covered before - I suspect it has as it's​ a question I'll wager many have pondered before.

Many of the descriptions I read of the final goal seem very much like a complete anihilation rather than an end worthy of so much effort. Having a good solid practice living in a forest in Thailand seems favourable to no sentience at all.

What have I missed in my understanding?

Thanks everyone...
I suspect that you have reading old translations by early Western scholars or pop Buddhism. As has been discussed many times today and over the centuries the final goal is not death, not annihilation, not sleep, not unconsciousness, not the absence of mental activity. It is not other things as well, but I think you get the drift. However, if you want an authoritative answer you will have to "obtain" the final result. Get cracking!

SarathW
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Re: Nibbana

Post by SarathW » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:14 am

if you want an authoritative answer you will have to "obtain" the final result. Get cracking!
Yes it is DIY.
Nibbana is for people who do not want anything.

Then the question come:
If I do not want anything why I want to attain Nibbana?
If I do not want anything what I am doing here in Dhamma Wheel?
If I do not want anything why I want to be a monk?
If I do not want anything why I have to get up from the bed in the morning?
If I do not want anything why I do not end my life now?
:juggling:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

R1111
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Re: Nibbana

Post by R1111 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:54 am

Nibbana is flawless happiness but it is not cognized or perceived by anyone. It implies only annihilation of conditions for origination of the world, matter, perception, mental volition, feelings and consciousness.
Last edited by R1111 on Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

santa100
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Re: Nibbana

Post by santa100 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:58 am

SarathW wrote:Nibbana is for people who do not want anything.

Then the question come:
If I do not want anything why I want to attain Nibbana?
If I do not want anything what I am doing here in Dhamma Wheel?
If I do not want anything why I want to be a monk?
If I do not want anything why I have to get up from the bed in the morning?
If I do not want anything why I do not end my life now?
All those questions will automatically be solved once the incorrect premise's been fixed: Nibbana is for people who do want something: the end of Dukkha. See the Park simile.

SarathW
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Re: Nibbana

Post by SarathW » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:03 am

Thank you Santa.
:D
Isn't need something is Dukkha.
Last edited by SarathW on Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

santa100
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Re: Nibbana

Post by santa100 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:05 am

SarathW wrote:Isn't need something is Dukkha
Depends on how you define "something". Is the need to go to "the Park" Dukkha? No, 'cuz it's allayed once youre there. Is the need for sensual pleasure Dukkha? Yes, 'cuz sensual pleasure is a bottomless pit.
:anjali:

SarathW
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Re: Nibbana

Post by SarathW » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:36 am

Code: Select all

Depends on how you define "something". Is the need to go to "the Park" Dukkha?
It depends what you mean by the park.
I do not like parks but I like forests.
I think need to do anything is Dukkha unless you act on compassion or to maintain the bare minimum such as a monk.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

santa100
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Re: Nibbana

Post by santa100 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:50 am

SarathW wrote:I do not like parks but I like forests.
Sounds like you have a "need" for preferences then... :smile:
SarathW wrote:I think need to do anything is Dukkha unless you act on compassion or to maintain the bare minimum such as a monk.
Ok, problem is that by using your own premise, that "a need to do anything is Dukkha", then the above is a self-contradicting statement. If you "need" to act on compassion, or "need" to maintain the bare minimum such as a monk, then you are suffering!

SarathW
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Re: Nibbana

Post by SarathW » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:24 am

Isn't Buddha act on compassion?
What is the goal of a living Arahant?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Dhammanando
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Re: Nibbana

Post by Dhammanando » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:41 am

SarathW wrote:Nibbana is for people who do not want anything.
The Buddha said it was for people “who feel” (vediyamānassa).
  • “In dependence on the six elements the descent of a future embryo occurs. When the descent takes place, there is name-and-form; with name-and-form as condition, there are the six sense bases; with the six sense bases as condition, there is contact; with contact as condition, there is feeling. Now it is for one who feels that I proclaim: ‘This is suffering,’ and ‘This is the origin of suffering,’ and ‘This is the cessation of suffering,’ and ‘This is the way leading to the cessation of suffering.’”
    Titthāyatana Sutta

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