Kâma (sensual pleasures)

[Nyana]

"Chanda" is that inclination of the mental function to always seek phassa, be it phassa based on pleasant things, painful things or neutral things.

Chanda can be either skillful or unskillful. Kāma is never regarded as skillful.

All the best,

Geoff

[Assaji]

Regarding the meaning of "kāmehi" in the jhāna formula, the earliest and most reliable explanation is given in the Vibhaṅga:

564. “vivicceva kāmehi vivicca akusalehi dhammehī”ti tattha katame kāmā? chando kāmo, rāgo kāmo, chandarāgo kāmo, saṅkappo kāmo, rāgo kāmo, saṅkapparāgo kāmo — ime vuccanti “kāmā”.

“Aloof from sense pleasures, aloof from unskilful dhammas” means: Therein what are sense pleasures? Wish is sense pleasure, lust is sense pleasure, lustful wish is sense pleasure, thought is sense pleasure, lust is sense pleasure, lustful thought is sense pleasure. These are called sense pleasures.

(translation by U Thittila https://suttacentral.net/vb12/en/thittila )

A similar explanation is given in the Peṭakopadesa (7.72):

tattha a-lobhassa pāripūriyā vivitto hoti kāmehi.

577. Herein, for the fulfilling of non-greed he is <secluded from sensual desires> (§ 550).

(translated here by Ven. Ñanamoli)

[Assaji]

From Nyanatiloka:

...

These two kinds of kāma are called 1. kilesa-kāma, i.e. kāma as a mental defilement, 2. vatthu-kāma, i.e. kāma as the object-base of sensuality; first in MNid.. I, p. 1, and frequently in the commentaries.

Well, Geoff, would you care to explain what the Mahaniddesa was discussing in relation to the extract you set out above? You've pulled out only a tiny snippet.

I quoted the passage explaining the commentarial vatthukāma-s which pertain to the kāmaguna-s.

Rupert Gethin wrote:

Early on (e.g. already in Peṭ and in Nidd I) the exegetical tradition explains kāma-s as twofold: (1) ‘desires' as affliction/defilement (kilesa-kāma), namely taṇhā for the objects of the five senses, and (2) ‘desires’ as the objects of those desires (vatthu-kāma), namely the objects of the five senses themselves (visible forms, sounds, smells, tastes, the objects of touch). So I take vivicc’ eva kāmehi to mean ‘quite separate/secluded from desires for the objects of the senses / from the objects of sense-desires. That certain words in Pali/Sanskrit can mean both the action and the object that action is directed towards is quite common. In fact this happens in all languages. So in English ’thought’ can mean both ’thinking’ and the object of thinking (what is thought about); ‘attachment’ can mean both being attached and then thing one is attached to; kāma in Pali is exactly like this, even though the English word ‘desire’, which is often used to translate kāma, is not so.

The relevant passages:

kāmesu sattāti kāmā dvidhā — vatthukāmā ca kilesakāmā ca, tattha kilesakāmā kāmataṇhā kāmataṇhāya yuttā bhavanti rūpataṇhā bhavataṇhā lakkhaṇena hārena, saṃyojane vajjamapassamānāti saṃyojanassa. yo tattha chandarāgo tassa kiṃ padaṭṭhānaṃ? sukhā vedanā dve ca indriyāni — sukhindriyañca somanassindriyañca. iti sukhāya vedanāya gahitāya tayopi vedanā gahitā honti. vedanākkhandhe gahite sabbe pañcakkhandhā gahitā honti. rūpasaddagandharasaphoṭṭhabbā gahitā, vatthukāmesu gahitesu sabbāni cha bāhirāni āyatanāni gahitāni honti.

KN Peṭ, 7. hārasampātabhūmi, para. 24

♦ kāmaṃ kāmayamānassāti kāmāti uddānato dve kāmā — vatthukāmā ca kilesakāmā ca. katame vatthukāmā? manāpikā rūpā manāpikā saddā manāpikā gandhā manāpikā rasā manāpikā phoṭṭhabbā; attharaṇā pāvuraṇā dāsidāsā ajeḷakā kukkuṭasūkarā hatthigavāssavaḷavā khettaṃ vatthu hiraññaṃ suvaṇṇaṃ gāmanigamarājadhāniyo raṭṭhañca janapado ca koso ca koṭṭhāgārañca, yaṃ kiñci rajanīyaṃ vatthu — vatthukāmā.

♦ api ca atītā kāmā anāgatā kāmā paccuppannā kāmā; ajjhattā kāmā bahiddhā kāmā ajjhattabahiddhā kāmā; hīnā kāmā majjhimā kāmā paṇītā kāmā; āpāyikā kāmā mānusikā kāmā dibbā kāmā paccupaṭṭhitā kāmā; nimmitā kāmā animmitā kāmā paranimmitā kāmā; pariggahitā kāmā, apariggahitā kāmā, mamāyitā kāmā, amamāyitā kāmā; sabbepi kāmāvacarā dhammā, sabbepi rūpāvacarā dhammā, sabbepi arūpāvacarā dhammā, taṇhāvatthukā taṇhārammaṇā kāmanīyaṭṭhena rajanīyaṭṭhena madanīyaṭṭhena kāmā — ime vuccanti vatthukāmā.

♦ katame kilesakāmā? chando kāmo rāgo kāmo chandarāgo kāmo; saṅkappo kāmo rāgo kāmo saṅkapparāgo kāmo; yo kāmesu kāmacchando kāmarāgo kāmanandī kāmataṇhā kāmasneho kāmapariḷāho kāmamucchā kāmajjhosānaṃ kāmogho kāmayogo kāmupādānaṃ kāmacchandanīvaraṇaṃ.

♦ “addasaṃ kāma te mūlaṃ, saṅkappā kāma jāyasi.

♦ na taṃ saṅkappayissāmi, evaṃ kāma na hohisī”ti —
♦ ime vuccanti kilesakāmā.

KN Nidd I, 1. kāmasuttaniddeso, para. 4