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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:10 am
by bodom
octathlon wrote:Several posts here are bending over backwards to try and fit a Christian concept into a Buddhist worldview.


Lol not sure who you're referring too, but I could not be further from a christian if I tried.

:anjali:

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:27 am
by octathlon
I don't remember whose specific posts they were, but comparing grace to either ripening of good kamma or dedicating merit seems like just too much of a stretch to me.

:smile:

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:36 am
by bodom
And what is a Buddhist Chaplaincy? Buddhist priest program? There seem to be several concepts here that are foreign to the Theravada and Buddhist tradition as a whole. Maybe this thread could be moved to Free for all?

:anjali:

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:44 am
by tiltbillings
bodom wrote:And what is a Buddhist Chaplaincy
That would be working in hospitals or prisons.

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:48 am
by bodom
tiltbillings wrote:
bodom wrote:And what is a Buddhist Chaplaincy
That would be working in hospitals or prisons.
Ahh, that makes sense. Thank you Tilt.

:anjali:

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:08 am
by Paññāsikhara
Vipassana1501 wrote:I'm a Buddhist Chaplaincy student at the who's been asked to do some research on comparing/translating the Christian concept of Grace in regards to Theravada practices. I feel like I may be missing something obvious but I keep finding myself going down dead ends. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!
Hi Vipassana1501,

I recommend reading the book Early Buddhism and the Bhagavadgītā by Kashi Nath Upadhyaya

If I recall correctly (it being almost 10 yrs since I read it), it does contain some discussion on the notion of "grace", albeit from the position of the Gita. However, considering that both the Gita and Christianity tend towards the monotheistic, I hope that this provides some grist for the mill.

The "Early Buddhism" in the title should be close enough to you wish for a Theravada perspective.

By the way, whereabouts are you studying Buddhist Chaplaincy? I can only think of two places that have such a program.

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:32 am
by Cittasanto
octathlon wrote:I don't remember whose specific posts they were, but comparing grace to either ripening of good kamma or dedicating merit seems like just too much of a stretch to me.

:smile:
so you have never heard of saying grace then? a common prayer of thanks before a meal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_%28prayer%29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:57 am
by octathlon
Manapa wrote:so you have never heard of saying grace then? a common prayer of thanks before a meal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_%28prayer%29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hi Manapa,
Yes I have, in fact that's the meaning of it that I grew up with. But I had also heard of these other meanings for it, which is why I asked the OP to define it for us, so we wouldn't have to speculate on which meaning. :smile:

I checked Wikipedia which starts off with "Within Christianity, there are differing conceptions of grace. In particular, Catholics and Protestants use the word in substantially different ways."

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:47 am
by Goofaholix
Manapa wrote: so you have never heard of saying grace then? a common prayer of thanks before a meal
In Christianity the concept of Grace is extremely important and this is what the OP asked about. The prayer of grace before a meal is a different word and just a little ritual.

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:46 pm
by Anicca
tiltbillings wrote:Metta is one thing, but do we really give our merit - the results of our kamma - to others other than in a symbolic way of well wishing? I do not think the Buddha taught that.
I have no wish to argue with you, Tilt - but i had read from others knowing more than i do (but not necessarily more than you do):

- the former Bhikkhu Khantipalo sees it this way:
It is widely believed in Buddhist lands that merits (puñña) are transferable providing that one has a compassion deep enough with others and a wisdom grown great.
- Ajaan Thate states in his autobiography:
One consideration was that he could share the merit gained from such ordination with his dead son and that would certainly enable the son to take rebirth in a happy realm (Sugati).
These beliefs are most likely from the culture, not the suttas. Could not find any sutta support - so you most likely are absolutely right, Tilt.


Metta

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:57 pm
by Cittasanto
from my experience, even within protestantism there are differing concepts, if you don't like something, you don't need to like it but you also don't need to say anything about it, maybe there are different understandings of something based on other experiences and traditions you yourself are unfamiliar with.

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:08 pm
by tiltbillings

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:35 pm
by octathlon
Manapa wrote:from my experience, even within protestantism there are differing concepts, if you don't like something, you don't need to like it but you also don't need to say anything about it, maybe there are different understandings of something based on other experiences and traditions you yourself are unfamiliar with.
Hi Manapa,
I think the above may be a response to my post since it refers to the quote I posted from Wikipedia (if not, please ignore this post :) ). But I don't understand what you are saying exactly, can you elaborate a little-- what is "it" and is that the generic "you" or did you mean I personally didn't like "it"?

:smile:

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:17 pm
by Cittasanto
octathlon wrote:
Manapa wrote:from my experience, even within protestantism there are differing concepts, if you don't like something, you don't need to like it but you also don't need to say anything about it, maybe there are different understandings of something based on other experiences and traditions you yourself are unfamiliar with.
Hi Manapa,
I think the above may be a response to my post since it refers to the quote I posted from Wikipedia (if not, please ignore this post :) ). But I don't understand what you are saying exactly, can you elaborate a little-- what is "it" and is that the generic "you" or did you mean I personally didn't like "it"?

:smile:
sorry had connection problems soon after that post!
the first part was for you, as you guessed, but the rest you was more of a general statement, and 'it' can be anything.

Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:54 pm
by octathlon
Ah, ok. Thanks, Manapa.

:smile: