Pali pronunciation

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries
hamsa
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:44 pm

Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by hamsa »

Because the second last is long (gacchāmi).
User avatar
Tranquility Base
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:21 am

Proper Pronunciation

Post by Tranquility Base »

good morning everyone,
Could someone please point me in the right direction? I would like to know where I can find a guide as to the proper pronunciation of the East Indian language that I am confronted by when reading through books on the Buddha. I have come to realize the 'h' is silent, but beyond that, am a little lost. thank you in advance,
Nichole
User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8503
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Proper Pronunciation

Post by cooran »

Hello , all,

Something to start with:

Pali Course as audio files
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4028" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pali • The Pali Collective :: Mailing List
(Resources in their Files Section)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A Guide to Learning the Pali Language
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... gpali.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
User avatar
Tranquility Base
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:21 am

Re: Proper Pronunciation

Post by Tranquility Base »

Thank you very much Chris. I'm going to go through those links right now. :)
Nichole
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19932
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Proper Pronunciation

Post by mikenz66 »

Welcome Tranquillity Base,

I'm not clear exactly what level of detail you are asking for.

If you want a quick guide on pronunciation to get started then the introduction to various chanting books is suitable. For example:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... #pronounce" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regarding the "h", it is common in transliterating Asian languages with Roman script that an "h" denotes aspiration, rather than the "th" in English. So "Thai" sounds something like "Tie", and not like "Thigh".

There are some subtleties, but apart from the use of "h" to denote an aspirated consonants, I think the following are the most likely to confuse an English speaker:
e as in they
ṃ & ṅ as ng
ñ as in cañon

Note, that the pronunciation of Pali does amongst Theravada countries, so if you listen to Sri Lankans, Burmese, and Thai chanting you'll hear some differences, due to the sounds available in their language. Thais will always pronounce "v" as "w", for example.

:anjali:
Mike
User avatar
Tranquility Base
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:21 am

Re: Proper Pronunciation

Post by Tranquility Base »

Thank you Mike, for your quick response, as well as Chris's instanteneous help :) What a friendly, accepting forum I am finding this to be.
I initially joined just to start with that question. me being me, I jumped in head first and did not read through the other categories and listings here. Everything I need I can find right here on this site, along with Chris's audio link, which I will use to
perfect my speech.
I so appreciate the help I've found here, and am reading through posts at least an hour a day now, plus listening at audi link Chris left me. I also love the weekly lessons section of the 'DhammWheel' :bow:
Nichole
User avatar
frank k
Posts: 2247
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by frank k »

Are there a definite clear set of rules on which syllables get accented? For example, if you play the audio file for "Yāvajīvaṃ" on http://www.aimwell.org/Help/Pali/pali.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , I would have expected the accent to fall on the long " ī " in "jīvaṃ" rather than on the "ṃ".
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
User avatar
frank k
Posts: 2247
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by frank k »

How do pronounce the letter "v" in pāli? According to the pāli primer and some of the guides in this thread, the "v" would sound like the english v as in "vine". However, Pa Auk (Burmese) pronounce every "v" with a "w" sound instead of a "v" sound. In the Thai forest chants I listen to, often the "v" also makes a "w" sound, especially when it's not at the start of a word.
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
Kenshou
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by Kenshou »

I believe that technically the Pali "v" is this sound: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labiodental_approximant" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (listen to the sound file)

A lot of the languages of India use this sound, it's like a "v" as we know it in English but with looser friction between the teeth and lower lip. Sounds somewhere between a "v" and "w" as we know them. Either one would be an okay approximation, probably, but in the English speaking world "v" seems to be the choice.

However some languages, such as Thai and Burmese, lack a sound like the English "v". For them, the closest sound to the Pali one is a "w", so that's what they use.
User avatar
frank k
Posts: 2247
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by frank k »

Thanks Kenshou. That clears it up. Are there any other things a Pali learner should watch out for, when listening to Thai forest monks chant? One thing I wonder about is how the letter "a" is pronounced. According to all the rules I've seen, the "a' should sound like the "u" in "cut". On the thai forest chants, it sounds closer to how they pronounce "ā". On ATI, they explain the rule for long and short vowels like this:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... #pronounce" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Vowels

Pāli has two sorts of vowels, long — ā, e, ī, o, ū, & ay; and short — a, i, & u. Unlike long and shorts vowels in English, the length here refers to the actual amount of time used to pronounce the vowel, and not to its quality. Thus ā & a are both pronounced like the a in father, simply that the sound ā is held for approximately twice as long as the sound a. The same principle holds for ī & i, and for ū & u. Thus, when chanting Pāli, the vowels are pronounced as follows:
----------------------------------
I'm not clear whether it only applies to chanting, or to normal recitation of pāli as well.
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
Kenshou
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by Kenshou »

I believe the a/ā pair is the one exception, where they differ in more than just length. However I believe the "short a" which would be similar to what is commonly called a "schwa" sound by Anglophones, is absent in Thai.

The biggest other difference I can recall is that Thai lacks a series of voiced aspirated consonants that Pali has (bh dh jh gh) and Thai tends to substitute their unvoiced aspirated consonants for these. (ph th ch kh) And it also lacks Pali's retroflex consonants (t, th, d, dh pronounced further back in the mouth), which Thai would just substitute with the non-retroflex counterparts.

There are probably some other little things too, I haven't listened to much Thai Pali chanting for awhile. Though after looking a little more closely at Thai phonology it appears that Thai lacks a /g/ sound, that might be reflected in the chanting too.
User avatar
frank k
Posts: 2247
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by frank k »

Thanks for the explanation Kenshou. I had been using the audio dictionary from worldtipitaka (I believe the voice used is a thai forest monk), but am looking for a better alternative since many words pronounced some of the consonants inconsistently. So beyond just phonetic things that might not be in the native thai tongue, the inconsistency of for example, "bojjhanga" pronounced in all the compound words in forms in their dictionary really left me confused. http://studies.worldtipitaka.org/audio_ ... m%C4%81sam" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would really love to get some expert pali speakers to recite the pali dictionary, send it to google translate so they can add it (they added latin recently) and be able to have pali suttas read to me in correct pronunciation like a GPS giving directions! That would be cool, I could see it happenning within the next 10 years.
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
User avatar
Assaji
Posts: 2106
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm

Re: Proper Pronunciation

Post by Assaji »

Hi Nichole,

You also may find useful:

Pali Romanized Alphabet and Pronunciation
http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/directory?sobi2T ... sobi2Id=86" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pāli Pronunciation
http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/directory?sobi2T ... obi2Id=684" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta, Dmytro
User avatar
frank k
Posts: 2247
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Proper Pronunciation

Post by frank k »

Dmytro,
I like what you did with the alphabet table linking to pronunciation sound files. It would be nice to get higher quality audio samples. Many of the audio pali samples available on the web seem to have been made before broadband internet and cheap massive storage was common. I just ordered a nice USB microphone, one of these days I'd like to visit a temple with an expert Pali speaking monk and record him pronouncing the alphabet and a subset if not the entire pali dictionary (probably less than an hour to do). If a few other Buddhists around the world did this (visit their local pali expert monk/nun with a laptop and decent usb microphone), we could put together a nice library of pali speaking experts giving future pali students a reliable sound source to learn from.
I've known about the Bhikkhu Bodhi recorded lectures http://bodhimonastery.net/bm/programs/p ... nline.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , but I just recently discovered that those set of MP3's contain “recital readings” as separate files, in which B.Bodhi recites pali sentences (which are all sutta excerpts) from the Gair/Karunatillake text book slowly, clearly. This is an invaluable resource for pali students trying to hear and distinguish what can be very subtle differences between pali letters.

we should fold this thread with the sticky board "pali pronunciation" thread.
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17169
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by DNS »

Good idea, this is done.
Post Reply