Pali pronunciation

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:59 am

not sure why aspirate/non-aspirate non important just because some people don't do it right.
octathlon wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:47 am
Are there any rules for which syllable of a Pali word is stressed? For example using words I've heard pronounced, "vipassana" is 3rd to last syllable, but gacchami is 2nd to last.
vipassanā and gacchāmi that will tell you how those are stressed, but i also would like to know the rule for stress. i have this guide right here it might be in there? https://www.pdf-archive.com/2017/04/22/ ... g-pali.pdf
there's also pali primer in two versions http://pali.pratyeka.org/ https://www.budsas.org/uni/u-palicb/e00.htm
me i am just picking up bits and pieces still haven't made a commitment, but if i could confidently pronounce any word then i think i'd be more eager to learn
what about words like anusaya or aṅguttara where all the vowels are short
why nikāya but not anusāya
what about sāvatthī, two stresses in the same word? does a long vowel automatically mean the stress is there; my background is in spanish so i have maybe some unpacked assumptions
i can pronounce dhammacakkappavattana and yathābhūtañāṇadassana i think
e and o are short before some double consonants and consonant clusters but long otherwise. i like this site btw, but in this image are these words just pronounced that way for the rhythm of a chant http://chantpali.org/homage.html#buddhagunavandana

just noticed that binocular also said she learns hearing others speak it. neat
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"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:05 am

lokavidū
sādhu, why is the u not long on that second one
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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Stiphan
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Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by Stiphan » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:35 pm

I am lucky I am Bulgarian in that Bulgarian pronunciation is closer to Pāḷi than English, being 'harder'. It's almost the same actually. There are additional sounds not present in Bulgarian like ṭ, ḍ, ṅ, and ṇ, but I think I can pronounce them if I knew exactly how they sound. Bulgarian is also similar to Pāḷi in that each letter signifies a sound. The only problem with Pāḷi pronunciation I have is where to put the stress on. I don't think there's a set rule, is there?

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Dmytro
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Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by Dmytro » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:35 pm

Stiphan wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:35 pm
I am lucky I am Bulgarian in that Bulgarian pronunciation is closer to Pāḷi than English, being 'harder'. It's almost the same actually.
Yes, quite similar, in Ukrainian as well.
The only problem with Pāḷi pronunciation I have is where to put the stress on. I don't think there's a set rule, is there?
There are some rules. Here's what Bhante Dhammanando wrote me many years ago:

http://wiki.audtip.org/wiki/pali/pali-p ... s_emphasis
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Pal ... topics/847

See also:
viewtopic.php?t=15406

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Stiphan
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Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by Stiphan » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:16 pm

Thank you for the links, Dmytro! I think all Slavic languages have very similar pronunciation to each other, and maybe all of them may be closer to the Indian Prakrit languages Sanskrit and Pāḷi (I don't know how Hindi sounds) than the Germanic languages. I think Italians and Spaniards might also find pronouncing Pāḷi easy, though.

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Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by hs6mr » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:46 pm

Hi, I need your help.

The legacy.suttacentral resource offers an additional length of the Pali language words, in the suttas display settings.

https://legacy.suttacentral.net/pi/sn47.18

For example, if you read the transcribed word brahmā, then only the second syllable is long.

But if you include the length of the words in the site options, the word turns into brāh‧mā ...

Image

Is it correct?

And what exactly lengthens in the first syllable, the sound of A or H?

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mikenz66
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Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:19 pm

Welcome hs6mr,
hs6mr wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:46 pm
Hi, I need your help.
...
Is the following discussion helpful?
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=32056

:heart:
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hs6mr
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Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by hs6mr » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:34 pm

Thank you for replying Mike!

But it's hard for me to understand all this...

I just want to know the correct pronunciation of the word.

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mikenz66
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Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:08 pm

hs6mr wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:46 pm
And what exactly lengthens in the first syllable, the sound of A or H?
I'm probably not the expert you need, but I suggest reading this post:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=32056#p475627
and listening to how sammā is pronounced in the recording. I hope that will clarify it for you.

In answer to your particular question, I'd say that the first syllable in
brah-mā
is lengthened by the sound of the "h".

There is also a small selection of words here: http://aimwell.org/pali.html

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mikenz66
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Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:44 pm

This discussion of how to get a computer to pronounce Pali is very interesting:
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/sc ... -amy/10410

Of particular interest is the discussion of Pali pronunciation of speakers of Asian languages, such as Sinhala and Thai. This post about which sounds are and are not in Sinhala is particularly fascinating, I had no idea that native Sinhala speakers do not use aspiration, hence "met" and "meth" would be pronounced the same:
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/sc ... y/10410/37
[This is relevant to certain arguments about the meaning of Pali words: viewtopic.php?f=46&t=26749&start=330#p484910]
And, of course, there will be other distortions for native speakers of Thai, Burmese, and so on...

As usual, Ven Dhammanado's comments are well worth reading:
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/sc ... y/10410/12
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/sc ... y/10410/19
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/sc ... y/10410/21

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Dmytro
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Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by Dmytro » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:04 am

I would like to ask, what are these statements based upon?

I don't hear such sound, for example, in Dhammaruwan's chanting:

http://www.pirith.org/download/Dhammachakka.mp3
Evaṃ me sutaṃ, ekaṃ samayaṃ bhagavā bārāṇasiyaṃ viharati isipatane migadāye tatra kho bhagavā pañcavaggiye bhikkhū āmantesi: "dve me bhikkhave, antā pabbajitena na sevitabbā. Yocayāṃ kāmesu kāmasukhallikānuyogo hīno gammo pothujjaniko anariyo anatthasaṃhito, yo cāyaṃ attakilamathānuyogo dukkho anariyo anatthasaṃhito, ete te bhikkhave, ubho ante anupagamma majjhimā paṭipadā tathāgatena abhisambuddhā cakkhukaraṇī ñāṇakaraṇī upasamāya abhiññāya sambodhāya nibbānāya saṃvattati.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by Dhammanando » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:43 am

Dmytro wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:04 am
I would like to ask, what are these statements based upon?
I was commenting on the pronunciation given in the link supplied by Sabbamitta:

http://wisdomandwonders.org/itp/

I don't know who the speaker is, but it sounds like a Sinhalese of advanced years, not Dhammaruwan.

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Dmytro
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Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by Dmytro » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:39 pm

Ok, so the conclusions are based on personal intuition.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by Dhammanando » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:29 pm

Dmytro wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:39 pm
Ok, so the conclusions are based on personal intuition.
Naturally, since I don't have the necessary equipment to produce an acoustic spectrogram of the recording, which I think is the only way one could objectively demonstrate the sound to be [dʒɑ] and not [ɟɑ].

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Re: Pali pronunciation

Post by Dmytro » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:30 am

Here's Wikipedia phonetic correspondences page:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Sanskrit

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