VIRIYA

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Aloka
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Aloka »

Only thing I can say is that when I was a very young man I remember dating this succubus posing as a human woman; she was much addicted to gallantry - she once drained me like 4 times in an hour - the amount of physical exhaustion I experienced was nonpareil, even to this day.
I wasn't refering to sex marathons. Running a few times around the local park can also cause exhaustion!

.
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Manopubbangama
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Manopubbangama »

Aloka wrote: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:22 pm
Only thing I can say is that when I was a very young man I remember dating this succubus posing as a human woman; she was much addicted to gallantry - she once drained me like 4 times in an hour - the amount of physical exhaustion I experienced was nonpareil, even to this day.
I wasn't refering to sex marathons. Running a few times around the local park can also cause exhaustion!

.
four le petit morts in an hour is like unto death compared to 1 hour and 1 petit mort, Buttercup.

This is why some men who don't deny women deny them their essense:



When I learned the rudiments of this fact, as a young man, I went from being the victim of these voracious succubbii to being someone capable of making one think these lascivious females just got off a 48 hour horseback ride from Kansas to the Rio Grande.

I'm talking about autobiographical details purely as it relates to the path and not for ego-gratification, as this is all empirically observed phenomena.

In High school I could play 'the doors greatest hits' cassette, begin one side, stand up from my little sicilian american princess, flip over the cassette and play the other side. this would be before the first petit mort.

I think becoming concious of this made me realize that men who don't spill seed are far more powerful than men who do so frequently.
Garrib
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Garrib »

Manopubbangama wrote: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:26 pm
Aloka wrote: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:22 pm
Only thing I can say is that when I was a very young man I remember dating this succubus posing as a human woman; she was much addicted to gallantry - she once drained me like 4 times in an hour - the amount of physical exhaustion I experienced was nonpareil, even to this day.
I wasn't refering to sex marathons. Running a few times around the local park can also cause exhaustion!

.
four le petit morts in an hour is like unto death compared to 1 hour and 1 petit mort, Buttercup.

This is why some men who don't deny women deny them their essense:



When I learned the rudiments of this fact, as a young man, I went from being the victim of these voracious succubbii to being someone capable of making one think these lascivious females just got off a 48 hour horseback ride from Kansas to the Rio Grande.

I'm talking about autobiographical details purely as it relates to the path and not for ego-gratification, as this is all empirically observed phenomena.

In High school I could play 'the doors greatest hits' cassette, begin one side, stand up from my little sicilian american princess, flip over the cassette and play the other side. this would be before the first petit mort.

I think becoming concious of this made me realize that men who don't spill seed are far more powerful than men who do so frequently.
I fail to see how these details relate to the path. I think you might be deluding yourself with all these fantasies? (No offense)
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Dan74-MkII
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Dan74-MkII »

Buttercup? Aloka is old enough to be your mother. I think you should shut your face for a while to contemplate the f*** you've been saying here, M. I take you for an intelligent person, but forgive me if I am wrong..
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Aloka
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Aloka »

Dan74-MkII wrote: Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:27 pm Buttercup? Aloka is old enough to be your mother. I think you should shut your face for a while to contemplate the f*** you've been saying here, M. I take you for an intelligent person, but forgive me if I am wrong..

Do you think he doesn't know that already, Dan ? I don't mind being called "Buttercup" (and guess what, I have a friend called Daisy!), so why don't you stop being so rude and take a good look at your own attitude more often ?


:anjali:


.
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Manopubbangama
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Manopubbangama »

Dan74-MkII wrote: Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:27 pm Buttercup? Aloka is old enough to be your mother. I think you should shut your face for a while to contemplate the f*** you've been saying here, M. I take you for an intelligent person, but forgive me if I am wrong..
Moderate your tongue in the presence of a lady, please.

And gentlemen now abed in England shall hold their manhood's cheap while any speak who fought on St. Crispan's day....

Low-T is killin ppls.
Last edited by Manopubbangama on Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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retrofuturist
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by retrofuturist »

:focus:
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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Manopubbangama
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Manopubbangama »

frank k wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:37 pm

I read an article a while back, interviewing a person who was in a male prison for several years, this was an interview question about sex in prison, he was talking about men raping men, masturbation etc, and he said that the body builders in prison who were serious about getting stronger and build muscle mass would refrain from maturbation.

People who are serious about meditation and spirituality, and maintain celibacy, it's not even debatable, it's as clear as clear can be the difference between keeping celibacy and not. The amount you need to eat, sleep, and improvement in memory, cognitive ability, etc, it's just so obvious there is no doubt at all how viriya works.
Sorry if I didn't recognize this as such before, but best post in thread, so far. :anjali:

I think if some people just had a no-fap week they would realize it for themselves instead of getting all sassy about "phallic worship" and "masculinity cults" which have nothing to do with anything; if anything recognition of how the mind and body work is just basic common sense not worshipping something that is inherently weak, unstable, prone to disease and due to be rubbed away in no time.

No-fap should become a standard for anyone intent on meditation.

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Garrib
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Garrib »

For the record, I am all in favor of "no-fap" (although i don't particularly like the term), and I am convinced that there are benefits to be gained from abstaining from sexual activities of all kinds.

That being said, I think it might be worthwhile considering that in the Vinaya, sexual intercourse (even without emission) is a defeating offense, whereas intentional emission alone is a lesser (but still serious) offense. Unintentional emission (as far as I'm aware) is no offense at all - disagreeable though it may be.
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Aloka
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Aloka »

Garrib wrote:That being said, I think it might be worthwhile considering that in the Vinaya, sexual intercourse (even without emission) is a defeating offense, whereas intentional emission alone is a lesser (but still serious) offense. Unintentional emission (as far as I'm aware) is no offense at all - disagreeable though it may be.
It would be interesting to do a survey of how many lay men and boys posting in this forum are struggling to follow Vinaya rules intended for monks.

I think it might also be confusing for newcomers to Theravada, especially female members, reading all this stuff and thinking it's some kind of general rule for everyone.

:anjali:
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retrofuturist
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Manopubbangama wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:03 am The No-Fap movement will continue to grow as the evils of pornography are becoming more and more apparent to young men everywhere.
Do you really think so?

I would think it would somewhat go "against the grain".

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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Manopubbangama
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Manopubbangama »

retrofuturist wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:02 am Greetings,
Manopubbangama wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:03 am The No-Fap movement will continue to grow as the evils of pornography are becoming more and more apparent to young men everywhere.
Do you really think so?

I would think it would somewhat go "against the grain".

Metta,
Paul. :)
People who make the connection between pornography and its consequences and who have the resources available, such as meditation, will make the jump.

Considering that "science" is the new religion for most people ( in the sense that scientists are viewed much like priests were in prior ages) and that science shows the effects of pornography, I think many people will eventually wake up.

I remember in the mid '90's only the biggest gutterpunk, straight-edge anarchist type was a vegan and now veganism is the most mainstream obvious-trend on earth.

If society becomes more libertarian, the commodification of sex will continue until it is a complete economic good/service, but if pockets of society ever become more Traditional than it could start a ground-up movement "against the grain," as you say. Just mho.

Also, as pornography memes fights for more attention in its everflowing red ocean, the content is becoming more disgusting, shocking and ridiculous, and we saw where that took the music industry...Remember Marilyn Manson? Thats no longer edgy but just seen as a silly shock-value gimmick by most people now.

The industry tries to make porn look cool and still is but it will eventually backfire, as these things inevitably do.

Prostitutes who prostitute for not only money but for "glory" crave attention; they deserve absolutely none.

Feminists hate the rise of these disgusting sex-robots, but what they really hate is competition of the money and attention involved.

These are not my personal issues but I mention them out of concern for young men who will not be automatically prepared for what is coming their way.

Here is an athlete talking about seminal retention:
Garrib
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Garrib »

Aloka wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:41 am
Garrib wrote:That being said, I think it might be worthwhile considering that in the Vinaya, sexual intercourse (even without emission) is a defeating offense, whereas intentional emission alone is a lesser (but still serious) offense. Unintentional emission (as far as I'm aware) is no offense at all - disagreeable though it may be.
It would be interesting to do a survey of how many lay men and boys posting in this forum are struggling to follow Vinaya rules intended for monks.

I think it might also be confusing for newcomers to Theravada, especially female members, reading all this stuff and thinking it's some kind of general rule for everyone.

:anjali:
Celibacy is mandatory for monks (and nuns) but any practitioner can take on this additional precept. Speaking for myself, several years ago I had the desire and intention to seek ordination, although various circumstances prevented me from doing so - as a compromise, I decided to try to deepen my practice as a lay person as much as possible. No one should feel obligated to live like a monastic - it is not required of lay Buddhists. However, I see no reason to discourage people from practicing in this way.
thang
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by thang »

There is a manly Viriya in Dhamma but is only about developing kusala and reducing akusala.
Puthujjana Viriya is either akusala or mixed. If one is using akusala viriya there may be a toxicity.
When toxicity is involved there will be a kamma result on the spot or later kamma result.

Some ordinary examples for on the spot consequences of toxic physical strength :
eg1: If a bit drunken strong man challenges an ordinary man and start a fight, he can get beaten because the other person has the power of mindfulness and wisdom over the strong person at that moment. The toxicity makes the wisdom eye blinded and his assessments of self-power and the enemy's power is incorrect.
eg2: We know many young boys need some years to learn by experience that they are not strong as they thought. This happens to young girls also in other aspects.
eg3: What will happen if a body builder goes to fight with a martial artist thinking that his physical strength alone do the job?
eg4: What will happen if a 100 metres runner started one hour race with a marathon runner?
eg5: What will happen if a toxic strong man hit a an ordinary policeman

It is better to see how Bodhisatta has fulfilled Viriya Paramita in Maha Janaka Jataka.
The Bodhisatta replied, “This is my seventh day here in the ocean, I have not seen a second living being beside myself,—who can it be that speaks to me?” so, looking into the air, he uttered the second stanza:

“Knowing my duty in the world, to strive, O goddess, while I can,
Here in mid ocean far from land I do my utmost like a man.

Desirous to hear sound doctrine, she uttered to him the third stanza:

“Here in this deep and boundless waste where shore is none to meet the eye,
Thy utmost strivings are in vain,—here in mid-ocean thou must die.”

The Bodhisatta replied, “Why dost thou speak thus? if I perish while I make my best efforts, I shall at all events escape from blame,” and he spoke a stanza:

“He who does all a man can do is free from guilt towards his kin,
The lord of heaven acquits him too and he feels no remorse within.”
As long as a man uses his akusala manly viriya, he is in the hands of women. A woman can cheat or bind him easily in many ways. So it is not a real strength of him but a big weakness in the mask of a strength. A man is spending and serving for a woman for the whole lifetime because of this weakness of him. He lives under the control of women because of this akusala, yet he thinks the women are under the control of him because it appears so, on the surface.

See how even Bodisatta was trapped by others using this weakness.
Mora Jātaka
The Bodhisatta was once born as a golden peacock and lived on a golden hill in Dandaka. He used to recite one spell in honour of the sun and another in praise of the Buddhas, and thus he was protected from all harm. Khemā, queen of Benares, saw in a dream a golden peacock preaching. She longed for the dream to come true and told it to the king. He made enquiries, and sent hunters to catch the golden peacock, but they failed. Khemā died of grief, and the king, in his anger, inscribed on a golden plate that anyone eating the flesh of the golden peacock would be immortal. His successors, seeing the inscription, sent out hunters, but they, too, failed to catch the Bodhisatta.
Six kings in succession failed in this quest. The seventh engaged a hunter who, having watched the Bodhisatta, trained a peahen to cry at the snap of his finger. The hunter laid his snare, went with the peahen and made her cry. Instantly, the golden peacock forgot his spell and was caught in the snare. ...
The story was told to a backsliding monk who was upset by the sight of a woman magnificently attired.
Ananda is identified with the king of Benares.
Bondage
“Bhikkhus, a woman binds a man in eight ways. What eight? A woman binds a man by her form … by her smile … by her speech … by singing … by weeping … by her appearance … by a present … by her touch. A woman binds a man in these eight ways. Those beings are thoroughly bound who are bound by touch.”
But obviously there is a kusala manly Viriya according to Suttas.

Another fact:
If a person uses solely the uplifted energy, it will be a hindrance to him.
Nimitta Sutta:
"A monk intent on heightened mind should attend periodically to three themes: He should attend periodically to the theme of concentration; he should attend periodically to the theme of uplifted energy; he should attend periodically to the theme of equanimity. If the monk intent on heightened mind were to attend solely to the theme of concentration, it is possible that his mind would tend to laziness. If he were to attend solely to the theme of uplifted energy, it is possible that his mind would tend to restlessness. If he were to attend solely to the theme of equanimity, it is possible that his mind would not be rightly concentrated for the ending of the fermentations.


This is what has happened to many young and inexperienced meditation enthusiasts. This is a milestone where the need of spiritual friends or Suttas or experiences comes in.

Furthermore a person Five Powers (Panca Bala) namely faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration and wisdom to win the spiritual battle. It is said that the faith should be balanced with wisdom and the energy should be balanced with concentration. Otherwise the task will not be successful.
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, _ all that is just so and NOT otherwise."
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Manopubbangama
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Manopubbangama »

thang wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:34 am There is a manly Viriya in Dhamma but is only about developing kusala and reducing akusala.
Puthujjana Viriya is either akusala or mixed. If one is using akusala viriya there may be a toxicity.
When toxicity is involved there will be a kamma result on the spot or later kamma result.

Some ordinary examples for on the spot consequences of toxic physical strength :
eg1: If a bit drunken strong man challenges an ordinary man and start a fight, he can get beaten because the other person has the power of mindfulness and wisdom over the strong person at that moment. The toxicity makes the wisdom eye blinded and his assessments of self-power and the enemy's power is incorrect.
eg2: We know many young boys need some years to learn by experience that they are not strong as they thought. This happens to young girls also in other aspects.
eg3: What will happen if a body builder goes to fight with a martial artist thinking that his physical strength alone do the job?
eg4: What will happen if a 100 metres runner started one hour race with a marathon runner?
eg5: What will happen if a toxic strong man hit a an ordinary policeman

It is better to see how Bodhisatta has fulfilled Viriya Paramita in Maha Janaka Jataka.
The Bodhisatta replied, “This is my seventh day here in the ocean, I have not seen a second living being beside myself,—who can it be that speaks to me?” so, looking into the air, he uttered the second stanza:

“Knowing my duty in the world, to strive, O goddess, while I can,
Here in mid ocean far from land I do my utmost like a man.

Desirous to hear sound doctrine, she uttered to him the third stanza:

“Here in this deep and boundless waste where shore is none to meet the eye,
Thy utmost strivings are in vain,—here in mid-ocean thou must die.”

The Bodhisatta replied, “Why dost thou speak thus? if I perish while I make my best efforts, I shall at all events escape from blame,” and he spoke a stanza:

“He who does all a man can do is free from guilt towards his kin,
The lord of heaven acquits him too and he feels no remorse within.”
As long as a man uses his akusala manly viriya, he is in the hands of women. A woman can cheat or bind him easily in many ways. So it is not a real strength of him but a big weakness in the mask of a strength. A man is spending and serving for a woman for the whole lifetime because of this weakness of him. He lives under the control of women because of this akusala, yet he thinks the women are under the control of him because it appears so, on the surface.

See how even Bodisatta was trapped by others using this weakness.
Mora Jātaka
The Bodhisatta was once born as a golden peacock and lived on a golden hill in Dandaka. He used to recite one spell in honour of the sun and another in praise of the Buddhas, and thus he was protected from all harm. Khemā, queen of Benares, saw in a dream a golden peacock preaching. She longed for the dream to come true and told it to the king. He made enquiries, and sent hunters to catch the golden peacock, but they failed. Khemā died of grief, and the king, in his anger, inscribed on a golden plate that anyone eating the flesh of the golden peacock would be immortal. His successors, seeing the inscription, sent out hunters, but they, too, failed to catch the Bodhisatta.
Six kings in succession failed in this quest. The seventh engaged a hunter who, having watched the Bodhisatta, trained a peahen to cry at the snap of his finger. The hunter laid his snare, went with the peahen and made her cry. Instantly, the golden peacock forgot his spell and was caught in the snare. ...
The story was told to a backsliding monk who was upset by the sight of a woman magnificently attired.
Ananda is identified with the king of Benares.
Bondage
“Bhikkhus, a woman binds a man in eight ways. What eight? A woman binds a man by her form … by her smile … by her speech … by singing … by weeping … by her appearance … by a present … by her touch. A woman binds a man in these eight ways. Those beings are thoroughly bound who are bound by touch.”
But obviously there is a kusala manly Viriya according to Suttas.

Another fact:
If a person uses solely the uplifted energy, it will be a hindrance to him.
Nimitta Sutta:
"A monk intent on heightened mind should attend periodically to three themes: He should attend periodically to the theme of concentration; he should attend periodically to the theme of uplifted energy; he should attend periodically to the theme of equanimity. If the monk intent on heightened mind were to attend solely to the theme of concentration, it is possible that his mind would tend to laziness. If he were to attend solely to the theme of uplifted energy, it is possible that his mind would tend to restlessness. If he were to attend solely to the theme of equanimity, it is possible that his mind would not be rightly concentrated for the ending of the fermentations.


This is what has happened to many young and inexperienced meditation enthusiasts. This is a milestone where the need of spiritual friends or Suttas or experiences comes in.

Furthermore a person Five Powers (Panca Bala) namely faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration and wisdom to win the spiritual battle. It is said that the faith should be balanced with wisdom and the energy should be balanced with concentration. Otherwise the task will not be successful.

Friend, I'm trying my utmost to ignore idiocy, and focus on my practice, so its extremely rare that I say this, but: thank you for the wonderful post. I learned something today. :anjali:

I will now go back though your old posts and see what else I can glean.
“Knowing my duty in the world, to strive, O goddess, while I can,
Here in mid ocean far from land I do my utmost like a man.”
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/ja539
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