VIRIYA

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries
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Manopubbangama
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VIRIYA

Post by Manopubbangama »

I'm reposting a bit here I wrote before; it appears that finally the PC factors in the world will not be censoring it.

I want to discuss the meaning of this word and will repost my feelings on it:




If eliminating sexual desire were the Dhamma than the quickest way to Nibanna would be to become a eunuch; eunuchs are not even permitted into the sangha.

Mental contaminations would continue even if you were to eliminate sexual desire unless you accept and practice the entire eighfold path.

If sexual desire is hindering your vipassana and/or samatha, you have asubha by which to remedy it.

If lack of sexual desire by itself had spiritual significance than every child before puberty would be an arahant.

We should utilize our manly virility to achieve Nibanna - this is one of the 7 factors of Enlightenment.


. For a faithful disciple who is intent on fathoming the Teacher's Dispensation, it is natural that he conduct himself thus: 'Willingly, let only my skin, sinews, and bones remain, and let the flesh and blood dry up on my body, but my virility shall not be relaxed so long as I have not attained what can be attained by manly strength [purisa-tthāmena], manly energy [purisa-viriyena], and manly persistence [purisa-parakkamena]....
-MN 70



Virility is such a strong concept that is "proudly priapic" (although I disagree with term) associated with manly energy, that it retains its root Indo-European meaning after 5,000+ years with the same root idea in languages from Sri Lanka to Alaska.

It even means semen in India.

Sujato even uses manly to translate this concept, and I am not sure that he would normally be considered proudly priapic.

And yes, I agree that one can be manly without wanting sex; that was my point - that using your virility towards the goal will eventually be beneficial towards achieving Nibanna, and there is no reason to attempt to force the destruction of the sex drive before reaching anagami and arahant maga and phala.

Spanish: la virilidad - virility, manhood, manliness

Latin - virilitas - virility, manhood, age of manhood, power of manhood

English - virility (countable and uncountable, plural virilities)

The state of being virile.
Manly character, quality, or nature.
The ability of a man to procreate.

Sanskit: Vīrya (Sanskrit वीर्य) literally means "state of a strong man"[1] or "manliness."[2] In Hindu Vedic literature, the term is often associated with heroism and virility. In Brahmacharya in Hinduism, Virya also refers to semen in a male and it is considered to be the 'vital fluid'. Loss of Virya from the body is avoided in Brahmacharya.

Vedic literature

Vīryà as "manly" and "hero" can be found, for instance, in the following excerpts from the Rig Veda (RV).
RV, Mandala 1, Hymn 32, v. 1

1. I will declare the manly deeds of Indra, the first that he achieved, the Thunder-wielder. He slew the Dragon, then disclosed the waters, and cleft the channels of the mountain torrents.


If Horner mistranslated than I will have to look for more errors in his work, considering that Bikkhu Bodhi, Sujato and Maurice Walsh did not make said errors.


Just as a boxer would, with the goal of victory in mind, not ejaculate for a long period of time before a fight (see film Raging Bull) the Buddha recommended directing your manly energy towards the goal of Nibanna in mind.

For a faithful disciple who is intent on fathoming the Teacher's Dispensation, it is natural that he conduct himself thus: 'Willingly, let only my skin, sinews, and bones remain, and let the flesh and blood dry up on my body, but my viriya shall not be relaxed so long as I have not attained what can be attained by manly strength [purisa-tthāmena], manly energy [purisa-viriyena], and manly persistence [purisa-parakkamena]

It should be obvious to any man that if and when you ejaculate many times in a day it becomes debilitating, hence the French idea of "la petit mort" and conversely, the practice of the building up of semen in boxers before the fight.

Apparently there is a book exclusively dedicated to this idea of spiritual virility; https://www.amazon.com/Seminal-Retentio ... B071VSRNMP

To paraphrase Dr. Strangelove: "I don't deny women, but I deny them my essence."

Don't knock it until you try it!

I would be willing to bet that when the Buddha-to-be was forced into his harem by his father he felt the debilitating feeling of all of these seductresses had on him and desired to be free from this to build up his primordial strength.

Since the word viriya (the root meaning is semen) maintains cognates in virtually all other Indo-European langauges its also interesting to see how other languages see the relation between the vital fluid and spiritual development:

Greek Stoic philosophy conceived of the Logos spermatikos ("seminal word") as the principle of active reason that fecundated passive matter.[30] The Jewish philosopher Philo similarly spoke in sexual terms of the Logos as the masculine principle of reason that sowed seeds of virtue in the feminine soul.[31]

The ancient Sumerians believed that semen was "a divine substance, endowed on humanity by Enki", the god of water.[38]:28[39] The semen of a god was believed to have magical generative powers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semen

Virility (from the Latin virilitas, manhood or virility, derived from Latin vir, man) refers to any of a wide range of masculine characteristics viewed positively. Virile means "marked by strength or force".[2] Virility is commonly associated with vigour, health, sturdiness, and constitution, especially in the fathering of children.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virility

Vīrya (Sanskrit वीर्य) literally means "state of a strong man"[1] or "manliness."[2] In Hindu Vedic literature, the term is often associated with heroism and virility. In Brahmacharya in Hinduism, Virya also refers to semen in a male and it is considered to be the 'vital fluid'. Loss of Virya from the body is avoided in Brahmacharya.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C4%ABrya_(Hinduism)

Virtus was a specific virtue in Ancient Rome. It carries connotations of valor, manliness, excellence, courage, character, and worth, perceived as masculine strengths (from Latin vir, "man").
Virtus was rarely attributed to women, likely because of its association with vir. The highest regarded female virtue was pudicitia: "modesty" or "chastity".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtus#Women

In Roman mythology, Virtus was the deity of bravery and military strength.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtus_(deity)

Not only human warriors train by this method, but even virile animals such as bulls are trained in the same way: Both male and female calves spend their first year of life with their mothers; then they are weaned, branded, and kept in single-sex groups.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Fighting_Bull


All of the etymology, the physiological practices, the Buddha's warrior background, the monk's rules against ejaculation, and the practice of purisa-tthāmena,purisa-viriyena and purisa-parakkamena to me is definitely food for thought.


Because of the fact that the root word vir means manly, semen, and connotes status-seeking, heroic energetic endeavours (such as hunting) is all inextricably and scientifically linked, as semen production and testosterone are linked?

https://www.webmd.com/men/features/infertility#1

I should have written "manly energy" as in testosterone.

Testosterone is responsible for acts that are etymologically linked to "virile" feats: such as winning social prestige:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 00787?np=y

Testosterone leads to sperm production, and sperm production leads to fathering children, potentially: Testosterone’s Role in Sperm Production

The pituitary gland produces follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH). LH stimulates the testes to release testosterone. When in balance, testosterone works with follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) to help generate sperm.

https://www.uranj.com/testosterone-effect-on-sperm/

Testosterone is linked to hunting: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3871326/

Testosterone is linked to physical competition: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22456888/

Feelings of Dominance: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26671006

Aggression: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27524498

Advantages in competitive sports: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3264812/

So while these links to sperm production, hunting and jockeying for the alpha position in social circles do not by themselves prove anything, they don't necessarily contradict the ideas that the ancients had about virility.

Again, this is an argument about etymology so none of us will know for sure the original meaning of viriya as quoted by the Buddha, we can only empirically note the difference in our meditational attainments combined with our current levels of abstinence. Several people in this thread claim there is a link: whether there is or isn't it doesn't hurt us to investigate.
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by DooDoot »

It gets quite funny when reading high-school-like versions of the theory.
10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others — and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them. Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
Sorry but this blokey machismo about 'manliness' seems unrelated to the actual path and asuba often does not work because asuba practitioners that lack other requisite wholesome qualities are often crushing the inner compassion instinct that arises from transforming the reproductive instinct into complete wholesomeness; similar to how a father looks protectively upon a young daughter differently to how he looks often sexually upon his wife. The Buddhism path has its foundation in harmlessness & non-sexual love (metta). The Buddha appeared to teach the practise of asuba together with other practises that are practised first, as follows:
"Develop the meditation in tune with space. For when you are developing the meditation in tune with space, agreeable & disagreeable sensory impressions that have arisen will not stay in charge of your mind. Just as space is not established anywhere, in the same way, when you are developing the meditation in tune with space, agreeable & disagreeable sensory impressions that have arisen will not stay in charge of your mind.

"Develop the meditation of good will. For when you are developing the meditation of good will, ill-will will be abandoned.

"Develop the meditation of compassion. For when you are developing the meditation of compassion, cruelty [harming] will be abandoned.

"Develop the meditation of appreciation. For when you are developing the meditation of appreciation, resentment will be abandoned.

"Develop the meditation of equanimity. For when you are developing the meditation of equanimity, irritation will be abandoned.

"Develop the meditation of the unattractive (Asubhaṃ bhāvanaṃ bhāvehi). For when you are developing the meditation of the unattractive, passion will be abandoned.

"Develop the meditation of the perception of inconstancy. For when you are developing the meditation of the perception of inconstancy, the conceit 'I am' will be abandoned.

"Develop the meditation of mindfulness of in-&-out breathing. Mindfulness of in-&-out breathing, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
:candle:
Manopubbangama wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:27 pmAgain, this is an argument about etymology so none of us will know for sure the original meaning of viriya as quoted by the Buddha....
The meaning of words is generally irrelevant for Buddhist study because various teachers, such as the Buddha, took common words and defined those words to suit their meaning & intent; as follows. Generally, the intended meaning of words are best examined within the context they are used; as follows:
And what is the faculty of energy (vīriya)? It’s when a mendicant lives with energy roused up for giving up unskillful qualities and embracing skillful qualities. They’re strong, staunchly vigorous, not slacking off when it comes to developing skillful qualities. They generate enthusiasm, try, make an effort, exert the mind, and strive so that bad, unskillful qualities don’t arise. They generate enthusiasm, try, make an effort, exert the mind, and strive so that bad, unskillful qualities that have arisen are given up. They generate enthusiasm, try, make an effort, exert the mind, and strive so that skillful qualities arise. They generate enthusiasm, try, make an effort, exert the mind, and strive so that skillful qualities that have arisen remain, are not lost, but increase, mature, and are completed by development. This is called the faculty of energy.

https://suttacentral.net/sn48.10/en/sujato
Now if want to benchpress 100 kg, that takes a certain amount of strength. But if I have a 100kg weight on my back and desperately want to drop it (let it go; abandon it), this also takes a certain 'energy'. Regardless, the 'viriya' referred to above is not related to fighting wars or weight training. Its is related to a constant energy similar to running a very long distance. For example, in Australia, an old man named Cliff Young ran from Sydney to Melbourne in a ultra-marathon of 875 kilometres. Obviously, the longer one runs, the more constant energy that must be used, yet the amount of energy per mind moment is obviously much less. Cliff Young actually took very short steps (called a "shuffle") thus it cannot be regarded as the 'manliness' of Usain Bolt over 100 metres.



Last edited by DooDoot on Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Manopubbangama »

Ya.....

Anybody....else?
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Volo »

Whatever is the etymology of the word, I think it's quite clear from the suttas, that by viriya Buddha understood what we call now "energy", "effort", etc. And not "virility". For example, he talked about "viriya" with reference to women:
Bhikkhus, the foremost of my bhikkhunī among those who arouse energy is Soṇā.” (āraddhavīriyānaṃ yadidaṃ soṇā)
(AN 1.241)

Also to his step mother, he said:
But, Gotamī, those things of which you might know: ‘These things lead ... to the arousing of energy, not to laziness (viriyārambhāya saṃvattanti no kosajjāya); ... you should definitely recognize: ‘This is the Dhamma; this is the discipline; this is the teaching of the Teacher.’” (AN 8.53)
Also he talked about not proper time to develop energy (when mind is excited) (SN 46.53). If we follow your interpretation would this mean to emit semen in such situations?
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by DooDoot »

Bhikkhus, the foremost of my bhikkhunī among those who arouse energy is Soṇā.” (āraddhavīriyānaṃ yadidaṃ soṇā)
:bow:

The above reminds me of MN 44, where the ex-husband of the bhikkhuni bowed to his ex-wife (the bhikkhuni).
Visakha the lay follower went to Dhammadinna the nun and, on arrival, having bowed down to her, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to her, "'Self-identification, self-identification,' it is said, lady. Which self-identification is described by the Blessed One?

MN 44
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Manopubbangama »

Volo wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:00 pm
Also he talked about not proper time to develop energy (when mind is excited) (SN 46.53). If we follow your interpretation would this mean to emit semen in such situations?
Anyone who would think those chicas squeezed off more rounds than a World War II French standard army rifle has got to be kidding themselves, but you know this already, so it says you don't really respect my argument.

That being said, it says something but not everything.

There are times when the Buddha tells men to use manly exertion, and manly energy to attain enlightenment.

you know that too!
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by ToVincent »

वीर्य vīrya (from vīra)
- manliness , valour , strength , power , energy, heroism , heroic deed (RV.)
- manly vigour , virility , semen virile (MBh. Kāv.)
(Note: semen appears in post-Buddhist litterature).

वीर vīra [√ वी vi - ॰र ra]
- a man , (esp.) a brave or eminent man , hero , chief (sometimes applied to gods , as to Indra (indriya - [indra - iya / what belongs to Indra] ) (RV.)
- Agni (son of Tapas) (MBh.)
- fire , (esp.) sacred or sacrificial fire (L.)

√ वी vī
- seek or take eagerly , grasp , seize , enjoy
(as an enemy i.e. "fall upon , attack , assail" )
(RV. AV. TS. Br.)
- to set in motion , arouse , excite , impel (RV.)
- to get , procure (RV.)

वी vī as an agt. of √ वी vī means:
- eager for , desirous or fond of (RV.)

॰र -ra
forms possesive adjectives: "who posseses".

_______

Therefore, viriya must be understood as the energy (to be aroused) with an eagerness to impel something.
As seen in the following context (extracts from suttas) :
Viriya: https://justpaste.it/uu9t

Note that, originally, this page had a lot more extracts - However, I took away all the extracts that had no parallels.
And it makes a lot more sense.
.
In this world, there are many people acting and yearning for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; and very few for the Unborn.
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Zom »

And where is the power of energy to be seen? The power of energy is to be seen in the four right strivings. (AN 5.15)

Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu generates desire for the nonarising of unarisen evil unwholesome states; he makes an effort, arouses energy, applies his mind, and strives. He generates desire for the abandoning of arisen evil unwholesome states…. He generates desire for the arising of unarisen wholesome states…. He generates desire for the maintenance of arisen wholesome states, for their nondecay, increase, expansion, and fulfilment by development; he makes an effort, arouses energy, applies his mind, and strives. (SN 48.5)

Now where is the semen here? :reading: :D
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by ToVincent »

Zom wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:08 pm Now where is the semen here? :reading: :D
When did Buddha even got so low?

____

Oh ! And mayI take the opportunity to say that I would even go as far as just defining viriya as "eagerness".
And that AN 5.15 does not have a parallel for this extract.
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Zom »

I would even go as far as just defining viriya as "eagerness".
And that AN 5.15 does not have a parallel for this extract.
I don't think this word fits, because viriya is not necessarily something to be done eagerly. 8-) Viriya can be eager, or it can be sluggish - but still, it will be viriya.
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by ToVincent »

वी vī as an agt. of √ वी vī means:
- eager for , desirous or fond of (RV.)
॰र -ra
forms possesive adjectives: "who posseses".

√ वी vi + ॰र ra + ॰ईय -īya
What belongs (iya) to who posseses (ra) eager for (vi).

The eagerness (of the "eminent man" [vira]).

_______

Viriya is often opposed to kusīta.

kusīta
- Indolent, lazy

कुसीद kusīda
- lazy , inert (TS.)

Ku and Sad
कु ku
- bad, not good.

सद् Sad (in comp. for sat)
सत् Sat (pr. p. of √ as)
- that which really is , entity or existence , essence , the true being or really existent (RV.)

______

Remember that (all) khandhas are "not yours".

I suppose that one gets to be "who he really is", when he is eager to get rid of the akusala dhammas and phenomena, born of all khandhas.
The "eminent man " is eager to do that, I suppose.
.
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In this world, there are many people acting and yearning for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; and very few for the Unborn.
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Dan74-MkII »

The OP's contention is a worldy spin on viriya. We are laypeople and live lives that are at least in some respects worldly, so it can be healthy to recognise and own this. This can eventiually lead to disenchantment. One point that is often ignored is that one doesn't attain disenchantment of what one denies, fears or buries. We've got to own it first.

But to spin it as the Buddha's Dhamma is not right, IMO. The replies above provide ample evidence.
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by Garrib »

IMO, the genuine path of Dhamma has nothing to do with phallic worship or obsession with semen...

Aggression/desire to dominate others etc...I think these are standard themes in masculine fantasies, but they seem to be essentially unwholesome (leading away from nibbana) to me. Yes, you can and should muster and use energy in cultivating the path - but you also have to develop a level of dispassion and disenchantment with your own body, sexuality, and gendered traits:
A man attends inwardly to his masculine faculties, masculine gestures, masculine manners, masculine poise, masculine desires, masculine voice, masculine charms. He is excited by that, delighted by that. Being excited & delighted by that, he attends outwardly to feminine faculties, feminine gestures, feminine manners, feminine poise, feminine desires, feminine voices, feminine charms. He is excited by that, delighted by that. Being excited & delighted by that, he wants to be bonded to what is outside him, wants whatever pleasure & happiness that arise based on that bond. Delighting, caught up in his masculinity, a man goes into bondage with reference to women. This is how a man does not transcend his masculinity.
Also:
Monks, there are these three forms of intoxication. Which three? Intoxication with youth, intoxication with health, intoxication with life.

"Drunk with the intoxication of youth...with the intoxication of health...with the intoxication of life... an uninstructed, run-of-the-mill person engages in bodily misconduct, verbal misconduct, & mental misconduct. Having engaged in bodily misconduct, verbal misconduct, & mental misconduct, he — on the break-up of the body, after death — reappears in the plane of deprivation, the bad destination, the lower realms, in hell.
That being said, there is no reason that you need to try to be womanly, or to be completely rid of all gendered traits you may have. Just make an effort to abandon the unwholesome, and to cultivate the wholesome. And make sure you look at what the Buddha said about what is wholesome and unwholesome.
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by auto »

https://suttacentral.net/sn45.153/en/sujato
“Mendicants, suppose a pot full of water is tipped over, so the water drains out and doesn’t go back in.
“Seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, kumbho nikkujjo vamateva udakaṃ, no paccāvamati;

In the same way, a mendicant who develops and cultivates the noble eightfold path expels bad, unskillful qualities and doesn’t let them back in.
evameva kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhu ariyaṃ aṭṭhaṅgikaṃ maggaṃ bhāvento ariyaṃ aṭṭhaṅgikaṃ maggaṃ bahulīkaronto vamateva pāpake akusale dhamme, no paccāvamati.

And how does a mendicant who develops the noble eightfold path expel bad, unskillful qualities and not let them back in?
Kathañca, bhikkhave, bhikkhu ariyaṃ aṭṭhaṅgikaṃ maggaṃ bhāvento ariyaṃ aṭṭhaṅgikaṃ maggaṃ bahulīkaronto vamateva pāpake akusale dhamme, no paccāvamati?

It’s when a mendicant develops right view, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion, which rely on seclusion, fading away, and cessation, and ripen as letting go.
Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu sammādiṭṭhiṃ bhāveti vivekanissitaṃ virāganissitaṃ nirodhanissitaṃ vossaggapariṇāmiṃ … pe … sammāsamādhiṃ bhāveti vivekanissitaṃ virāganissitaṃ nirodhanissitaṃ vossaggapariṇāmiṃ …
don't let semen form.
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Re: VIRIYA

Post by frank k »

I translate viriya as "vigor", to retain that connection. I thought about using "virility" as a translation as well, but decided people are too hung up on the sexual dimension of that and would get distracted from the main point.

In chinese, I believe jing-shen also has the same connection between virility, semen, strength, intelligence/wisdom. Jing is semen, shen is 'spirit', and directly proportional to how bright (literal luminosity perceived in meditation) is, it correlates with intellegence, wisdom.

the hindu viriya may be post buddhist in explicitly connecting semen to the word viriya, but the non-semen energetic essence behind that concept, gender neutral, is a universal experience.

I read an article a while back, interviewing a person who was in a male prison for several years, this was an interview question about sex in prison, he was talking about men raping men, masturbation etc, and he said that the body builders in prison who were serious about getting stronger and build muscle mass would refrain from maturbation.

People who are serious about meditation and spirituality, and maintain celibacy, it's not even debatable, it's as clear as clear can be the difference between keeping celibacy and not. The amount you need to eat, sleep, and improvement in memory, cognitive ability, etc, it's just so obvious there is no doubt at all how viriya works.
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