What's the meaning of "pañcā nodhi sattodhisā, siyuṃ dvādasapuggalā"?

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sma
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What's the meaning of "pañcā nodhi sattodhisā, siyuṃ dvādasapuggalā"?

Post by sma »

Please help me translate "pañcā nodhi sattodhisā, siyuṃ dvādasapuggalā." :namaste:
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Volo
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Re: What's the meaning of "pañcā nodhi sattodhisā, siyuṃ dvādasapuggalā"?

Post by Volo »

sma wrote: Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:44 pm Please help me translate "pañcā nodhi sattodhisā, siyuṃ dvādasapuggalā."
I think it is something like "five" (pañcā) and "seven" (satta) "would be" (siyuṃ, optative plural 3rd person of as) "twelve people" (dvādasapuggalā). But I don't know what is "nodhi" and "odhisā". It is difficult to translated verses, especially without any context.
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Re: What's the meaning of "pañcā nodhi sattodhisā, siyuṃ dvādasapuggalā"?

Post by sma »

Volovsky wrote: Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:00 pm I think it is something like "five" (pañcā) and "seven" (satta) "would be" (siyuṃ, optative plural 3rd person of as) "twelve people" (dvādasapuggalā). But I don't know what is "nodhi" and "odhisā". It is difficult to translated verses, especially without any context.
I initially wanted to get the meaning of the Pali word "nodhi" when I came across a Bhikkhu named "Nodhiñāṇa".
But I only got one result when I checked it out in the Tipitaka by searching "nodhi".
That's why I posted the question here.
:namaste:
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Re: What's the meaning of "pañcā nodhi sattodhisā, siyuṃ dvādasapuggalā"?

Post by Volo »

sma wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:50 am Bhikkhu named "Nodhiñāṇa".
The only thing I can think of is "na odhi ñāṇa" something like "knowledge without a limit". Although "anodhi" would be probably more usual in this case.
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Re: What's the meaning of "pañcā nodhi sattodhisā, siyuṃ dvādasapuggalā"?

Post by sma »

Volovsky wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:54 am The only thing I can think of is "na odhi ñāṇa" something like "knowledge without a limit". Although "anodhi" would be probably more usual in this case.
Thank you!
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Re: What's the meaning of "pañcā nodhi sattodhisā, siyuṃ dvādasapuggalā"?

Post by Dhammanando »

sma wrote: Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:44 pm Please help me translate "pañcā nodhi sattodhisā, siyuṃ dvādasapuggalā."
The verse is very tersely alluding to the opening paragraphs of the Paṭisambhidāmagga's description of mettabhāvanā:
Atthi anodhiso pharaṇā mettācetovimutti, atthi odhiso pharaṇā mettācetovimutti, atthi disāpharaṇā mettācetovimutti.

Katihākārehi anodhiso pharaṇā mettācetovimutti, katihākārehi odhiso pharaṇā mettācetovimutti, katihākārehi disāpharaṇā mettācetovimutti? Pañcahākārehi anodhiso pharaṇā mettācetovimutti, sattahākārehi odhiso pharaṇā mettācetovimutti, dasahākārehi disāpharaṇā mettācetovimutti.


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Metta.png

pañcā nodhi sattodhisā, siyuṃ dvādasapuggalā" should be written:

pañc'ānodhisatt'odhisā, siyuṃ dvādasa puggalā."

Form-equivalent translation:

"Five with unspecified intentness, seven with specified intentness, would be twelve individuals."

Explanatory translation:

"The [objects of] the five [ways of developing loving-kindness] with unspecified intentness and the [objects of] the seven [ways of developing lovingkindness] with specified intentness are [altogether] twelve kinds of individuals."
Rūpehi bhikkhave arūpā santatarā.
Arūpehi nirodho santataro ti.


“Bhikkhus, the formless is more peaceful than the form realms.
Cessation is more peaceful than the formless realms.”
(Santatarasutta, Iti 73)
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Re: What's the meaning of "pañcā nodhi sattodhisā, siyuṃ dvādasapuggalā"?

Post by Volo »

Dhammanando wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:16 am pañcā nodhi sattodhisā, siyuṃ dvādasapuggalā"[/b] should be written:

pañc'ānodhisatt'odhisā, siyuṃ dvādasa puggalā."

Form-equivalent translation:

"Five with unspecified intentness, seven with specified intentness, would be twelve individuals."
Thanks, bhante. Yes, we shouldn't forget that spaces and other punctuation, which are in the our editions are actually not in the original, and "pañcā nodhi" is the same as "pañc'ānodhi". Although PED gives "unlimited", "without boundary" for anodhi. "unspecified intentness" doesn't seem to be literal.

Another question us what is odhisā. Ok, I understand odhi, but what is about sā?
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Re: What's the meaning of "pañcā nodhi sattodhisā, siyuṃ dvādasapuggalā"?

Post by Dhammanando »

Volovsky wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:37 am Another question us what is odhisā. Ok, I understand odhi, but what is about sā?
One possibility is that odhisā = odhi + esā.

But as there are many errors in the CSCD edition of the Caturārakkhadīpanī another possibility is that the word is a misspelling of odhiso, one of the word's two forms in the instrumental singular (the other being odhinā) but nearly always functioning adverbially. When transcribing from Ledi Sayadaw's Burmese Pali it wouldn’t be too difficult to mistake ဩဓိသော for ဩဓိသာ.
Rūpehi bhikkhave arūpā santatarā.
Arūpehi nirodho santataro ti.


“Bhikkhus, the formless is more peaceful than the form realms.
Cessation is more peaceful than the formless realms.”
(Santatarasutta, Iti 73)
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