Translating a part of MN 118

[DooDoot]

Dear Pali gurus

MN 118 includes the following Pali:

Kāyesu kāyaññatarāhaṃ, bhikkhave, evaṃ vadāmi yadidaṃ—assāsapassāsā.

Bhikkhus, I say that the in-breaths and the out-breaths are certain bodies among all bodies. (Buddhadasa)
I tell you, monks, that this — the in-&-out breath — is classed as a body among bodies. (Thanissaro)
For I say that the in-breaths and out-breaths are an aspect of the body.(Sujato)
I say that this is a certain body among the bodies, namely, in-breathing and out-breathing. (Bodhi)

Question: If assāsapassāsā is nominative then assāsapassāsā is plural. Yet Bhikku Bodhi and Thanissaro appear to have translated as singular, which appears to be ablative. Can someone offer some clarification on this? Thanks

Vedanāsu vedanāññatarāhaṃ, bhikkhave, evaṃ vadāmi yadidaṃ—assāsapassāsānaṃ sādhukaṃ manasikāraṃ.

Bhikkhus, I say that attending carefully in the mind to in-breaths and out-breaths is a certain feeling among all feelings.
I tell you, monks, that this — careful attention to in-&-out breaths — is classed as a feeling among feelings.
For I say that close attention to the in-breaths and out-breaths is an aspect of feelings.
I say that this is a certain feeling among the feelings, namely, giving close attention to in-breathing and out-breathing.

Assāsapassāsānaṃ above appears to be pural (given there is no singular option) and Dative or Genitive. Manasikāraṃ appears to be accusative.

Question: If so, is it because manasikāra (attention) is being described by sādhukaṃ?



Also, I have isssues with each translation above but seem to prefer Bhikkhu Bodhi's. Obviously "close attention" ("sādhukaṃ manasikāraṃ") is not a "feeling" ("vedana"). My impression is the Pali should say something like:

I say that this is a certain feeling among the feelings, namely, [the feeling from] giving close attention to in-breathing and out-breathing.

Question: Is it OK to translate assāsapassāsānaṃ sādhukaṃ manasikāraṃ as: "from careful attention to breathing"?

Thank you

[Volo]

Question: If assāsapassāsā is nominative then assāsapassāsā is plural. Yet Bhikku Bodhi and Thanissaro appear to have translated as singular, which appears to be ablative. Can someone offer some clarification on this?

It is so called dvanda compound. Some of them have singular form, some plural. assāsapassāsā belongs to the second type. We can say it is plural because there are two things combined in one word. For example: candimasuriyā (sun and moon) is plural, but it doesn't mean "suns and moons". So, we can translate the way it sounds more natural in English: breath or breaths.

Assāsapassāsānaṃ above appears to be pural (given there is no singular option) and Dative or Genitive. Manasikāraṃ appears to be accusative.

Question: If so, is it because manasikāra (attention) is being described by sādhukaṃ?

Although most dictionaries I've checked give masculine for manasikāra, PED gives neutral: "2. (n.) manasikāra attention, pondering, fixed thought". Some words can adopt both neut and masc gender. Therefore I would take it as nom Sg, neut.

Question: Is it OK to translate assāsapassāsānaṃ sādhukaṃ manasikāraṃ as: "from careful attention to breathing"?

I don't see any "from" (i.e. ablative) there. It would be: "careful attention to in- and out-breath".

[DooDoot]

For example: candimasuriyā (sun and moon) is plural, but it doesn't mean "suns and moons". So, we can translate the way it sounds more natural in English: breath or breaths.

Thanks. This did cross my mind.

I don't see any "from" (i.e. ablative) there. It would be: "careful attention to in- and out-breath".

Thank you, sir. However, "careful attention to in-and-out-breath" still appears to not be a "feeling" ("vedana"). What about "when attending carefully to in-and-out-breaths"? Thanks

[Volo]

However, "careful attention to in-and-out-breath" still appears to not be a "feeling" ("vedana"). What about "when attending carefully to in-and-out-breaths"? Thanks

Then I would put it like "[when] attending carefully to in-and-out-breaths"? I.e. "when" is not in the Pali

[DooDoot]

Then I would put it like "[when] attending carefully to in-and-out-breaths"? I.e. "when" is not in the Pali

Thank you V. I will continue to ponder the verse.