Sayaṅkata vs Sāmaṃ ???

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DooDoot
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Sayaṅkata vs Sāmaṃ ???

Post by DooDoot » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:28 am

Dear Pali gurus

SN 12.17 and SN 12.25 contain teachings that appear to say suffering & kamma are not "self-made" ("sayaṅkata"), as follows:
Master Gotama, is suffering made by oneself?

“Kiṃ nu kho, bho gotama, ‘sayaṅkataṃ dukkhan’ti?

“Not so, Kassapa,” said the Buddha.

https://suttacentral.net/sn12.17/en/sujato
...there are ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. Some of them declare that pleasure and pain are made by oneself.

Santāvuso sāriputta, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṃ sukhadukkhaṃ paññapenti.

https://suttacentral.net/sn12.25/en/sujato
However, near the end of SN 12.25, there is teaching that appears to say the intentions leading to suffering are instigated "by oneself" (sāmaṃ):
By oneself one instigates the choice that gives rise to bodily, verbal, and mental action, conditioned by which that pleasure and pain arise in oneself.

Sāmaṃ vā taṃ, ānanda, kāyasaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkharoti, yaṃpaccayāssa taṃ uppajjati ajjhattaṃ sukhadukkhaṃ.

https://suttacentral.net/sn12.25/en/sujato
Can it kindly be explained the reasons for a difference between Sayaṅkata vs Sāmaṃ so impressions of contradictions do not arise?

Thank you :smile:

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Volovsky
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Re: Sayaṅkata vs Sāmaṃ ???

Post by Volovsky » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:42 am

sayaṃ and sāmaṃ are indeclinables meaning “oneself”, “self”, “myself”, etc. They are synonymous, except that sāmaṃ is more usual and sayaṃ more poetic and used only in elevated speech:
sāmaṃ diṭṭhaṃ, “seen by oneself,” “seen by myself”
sayaṃ abhiññā, “having ascertained himself” (abhiññā = abhiññāya with elision of the final syllable)

sayaṃ is used in compounds: sayaṃpabha = “self-
luminous ”; sayaṃkata = “self-made”, “self-evolved,”
“spontaneous” (e.g. the universe or the soul may be so
conceived; the opposite is paraṃkata = “made by
another”)
Warder, p. 187

I think the only difference is that in the first case "self" is combined in a compound with past participle kata: sayaṅkata, while in the second two different words: sāmaṃ abhisaṅkharoti. Actually verbs (i.e. abhisaṅkharoti) do not often form compounds. sayaṅkata probably was a usual expression therefore a less common sayaṃ is used (since sāmaṃ is not used in compounds). In the second case a more common sāmaṃ is used.

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DooDoot
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Re: Sayaṅkata vs Sāmaṃ ???

Post by DooDoot » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:40 am

Volovsky wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:42 am
sayaṃ and sāmaṃ are indeclinables meaning “oneself”, “self”, “myself”, etc. They are synonymous...
Thank you, sir. Your answer prompted my mind to reconsider the sutta, which says ultimately kamma is caused by ignorance. Therefore, even though it is said kamma is produced by "oneself", ultimately, it is produced by ignorance. This seems what distinguishes what the Buddha taught from the others sects that teach kamma is done by oneself.
Ignorance is included in all these things.

Imesu, ānanda, dhammesu avijjā anupatitā.

But when ignorance fades away and ceases with nothing left over, there is no body and no voice and no mind, conditioned by which that pleasure and pain arise in oneself.

https://suttacentral.net/sn12.25/en/sujato

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