Please help me translate this passage from the Niddesa

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Srilankaputra
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Please help me translate this passage from the Niddesa

Post by Srilankaputra » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:01 am

Passaṃ naro dakkhati nāmarūpaṃ
Disvāna vā ñassati tānimeva,

Passaṃ naro dakkhati nāmarūpanti - passaṃ naro, paracittavijānanañāṇena vā passanto pubbenivāsānussatiñāṇena vā passanto maṃsacakkhunā vā passanto dibbena cakkhunā vā passanto nāmarūpaṃ yeva dakkhati niccato sukhato attato; na tesaṃ dhammānaṃ samudayaṃ vā atthaṅgamaṃ vā assādaṃ vā ādīnavaṃ vā nissaraṇaṃ vā dakkhatīti - passaṃ naro dakkhati nāmarūpaṃ.

Disvāna vā ñassati tānimevāti - 'disvā’ti paracittañāṇena vā disvā pubbenivāsānussatiñāṇena vā disvā maṃsacakkhunā vā disvā dibbena cakkhunā vā disvā nāmarūpaṃ yeva disvā ñassati niccato sukhato attano; na tesaṃ dhammānaṃ samudayaṃ vā atthaṅgamaṃ vā assādaṃ vā ādīnavaṃ vā nissaraṇaṃ vā ñassatīti - disvāna vā ñassati tānimeva.

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Dmytro
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Re: Please help me translate this passage from the Niddesa

Post by Dmytro » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:19 am

Hi Srilankaputra,

This has been translated by Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi as:

Nidd. I 239. Seeing, a person will see name-and-form:
Seeing with the knowledge of other's minds or with the knowledge that recollects pas abodes, or seeing with the fleshly eye or with the human eye, one will see just name-and-form as permanent, happiness and self; one does not see the origination, passing away, gratification, danger and escape from those things.

https://books.google.com/books?id=ftnAD ... &pg=PA1164

Metta

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budo
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Re: Please help me translate this passage from the Niddesa

Post by budo » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:26 am

Dmytro wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:19 am
Hi Srilankaputra,

This has been translated by Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi as:

Nidd. I 239. Seeing, a person will see name-and-form:
Seeing with the knowledge of other's minds or with the knowledge that recollects pas abodes, or seeing with the fleshly eye or with the human eye, one will see just name-and-form as permanent, happiness and self; one does not see the origination, passing away, gratification, danger and escape from those things.

https://books.google.com/books?id=ftnAD ... &pg=PA1164

Metta
Nice. It confirms that supernormal knowledge is not enough on its own to attain enlightenment, and that the fourth immersion listed in AN 4.41 is required. Supernormal knowledge is just the second of four immersions.

Srilankaputra
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Re: Please help me translate this passage from the Niddesa

Post by Srilankaputra » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:33 pm

Dmytro wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:19 am

Thank you ! :anjali:

Does it imply that when we are seeing some thing, what we are conscious of is actually a collection of namarupas ?

SN12.65 says "nāmarūpapaccayā viññāṇaṃ, viññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpaṃ". I understood it to mean whatever we are conscious of it is a collection of namarupas. Is this intepretation correct?

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