"Ko nu kho"? "What" or "who"?

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries
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DooDoot
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"Ko nu kho"? "What" or "who"?

Post by DooDoot »

Dear Pali teachers

The term "ko nu kho" is found in the suttas, as follows:
“But sir, who contacts?”

“Ko nu kho, bhante, phusatī”ti?

“That’s not a fitting question,” said the Buddha.

“No kallo pañho”ti bhagavā avoca:

https://suttacentral.net/sn12.12/en/sujato
Also:
“What’s the cause, Reverend Ānanda, what’s the reason why the true teaching declines?

“ko nu kho, āvuso ānanda, hetu, ko paccayo yena saddhammaparihānaṃ hoti?

https://suttacentral.net/sn47.23/en/sujato
How is "who" vs "what" distinguished?

Thank you
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Dhammanando
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Re: "Ko nu kho"? "What" or "who"?

Post by Dhammanando »

In the great majority of cases the context alone will suffice to show whether "what?" or "who?" is the more apt translation of ko. In your second passage, for example, clearly "What?" is needed, for the answer to the question is a mode of behaviour, not a person.

In cases where either translation might arguably make sense, the translator will probably base his decision either on (1) His knowledge of typical/natural ways of framing questions in sutta usage; it will sometimes happen that one of the two options, though semantically possible, would amount to an inelegant or unnatural way of phrasing the question; (2) His knowledge of Buddhist doctrine.

In the case of your first passage, if "What?" were used in place of "Who?" then it's hard to see why it would be an "unfit question", for elsewhere in the suttas we do find the Buddha saying things like "contacts contact," "feeling feels", etc., and so it would actually be an easily answerable question.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
SarathW
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Re: "Ko nu kho"? "What" or "who"?

Post by SarathW »

Just a matter of interest.
In Sinhalese, we use Ko,Ku,Ki to ask questions.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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pitakele
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Re: "Ko nu kho"? "What" or "who"?

Post by pitakele »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:25 am“But sir, who contacts?”

“Ko nu kho, bhante, phusatī”ti?

“That’s not a fitting question,” said the Buddha.

“No kallo pañho”ti bhagavā avoca:
Slightly away from your Pali question, but this gāthā from the Sakkārasutta has a similar meaning
Gāme v'āraññe sukhadukkhaphuṭṭho,
Nevattato no parato dahetha.

“Affected by pleasure and pain in the village or wilderness,
you should certainly not consider it as due to oneself or another."

Phusanti phassā upadhiṃ paṭicca,
Nirūpadhiṃ kena phuseyyu phassā?

"Contacts affect one with cleaving as condition,
How could contacts affect one without cleaving?”

https://suttacentral.net/ud2.4/en/anandajoti
aniccā vata saṇkhārā - tesaṁ vūpasamo sukho
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DooDoot
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Re: "Ko nu kho"? "What" or "who"?

Post by DooDoot »

Thank you Dhammanando, Sarath & Pitakele.

:anjali:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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