Āṇi sutta: a question on pali text

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Volovsky
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Āṇi sutta: a question on pali text

Post by Volovsky » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:40 am

Hi everyone,

The Āṇi sutta (SN 20.7) is discussed in a parallel subforum (viewtopic.php?f=25&t=32559), but since my question is purely linguistic I am starting a separate topic.

So, in the sutta Buddha reproaches those who don't want to listen to the deep Dhamma, but are eager to listen to:
ye pana te suttantā kavikatā kāveyyā cittakkharā cittabyañjanā bāhirakā sāvakabhāsitā
This is translated (by Ven. Sujato) as:
But when discourses composed by poets—poetry, with fancy words and phrases, composed by outsiders or spoken by disciples
In this case if I understand correctly kavikatā kāveyyā cittakkharā cittabyañjanā bāhirakā sāvakabhāsitā are all treated as adjectives, related to suttantā.

My question is: Would it be also grammatically correct to treat bāhirakā as an adjective, which characterizes sāvakabhāsitā, not suttantā (but sāvakabhāsitā would then characterize suttantā)? In this case we would have "spoken by the disciples of the outsiders". Are there any grammatical objections against such treatment?

Thanks!

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Dhammanando
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Re: Āṇi sutta: a question on pali text

Post by Dhammanando » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:41 pm

No, for the adjectival form is bāhira and the addition of -ka is precisely for the purpose of forming a noun from it.

Having said that (and as Mike quotes Bhikkhu Bodhi saying in the other Āṇisutta thread), the sāvaka in sāvakabhāsita is understood in the commentaries as being the disciples of outsiders, not the disciples of the Buddha. I'm told that this way of construing the passage is supported also in the Chinese translations of Sanskrit sūtras containing the word śravakabhāṣita.

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Volovsky
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Re: Āṇi sutta: a question on pali text

Post by Volovsky » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:15 pm

Hmm... But PED seems to treat bāhiraka as an adj... Or do I miss your point?
Bāhiraka (adj.) [=bāhira, but specialised in meaning bāhira 3] outsider, non -- religious, non -- Buddhist, heretic profane S ii.267; A i.73; iii.107; Kvu 172 (isayo) VvA 67 (itthi).
-- kathā unreligious discussion, profane story KhA 118 (cp. bāhirakathā). -- tapa=foll. J i.390. -- pabbajjā the ascetic life as led by disciples of other teachers than the Buddha, esp. Brahmanic (cp. bāhira˚ and BSk. bāhirako mārgaḥ, e. g. MVastu i.284; ii.210; ii.223) J iii.364 DhA i.311.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Āṇi sutta: a question on pali text

Post by Dhammanando » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:18 am

Volovsky wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:15 pm
Hmm... But PED seems to treat bāhiraka as an adj... Or do I miss your point?
I'm sure you get my point, though it's possible of course that I'm mistaken. I'll look into the matter.

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