physician or arrow-remover?

[JohnK]

In reading Thanissaro's translation of the Sutta Nipata, specifically the Sela Sutta, Sn3:7, I noticed that the Buddha describes himself as "an arrow remover unexcelled." Knowing that arrows/darts have been used as similes for dukkha, I liked that description, but I wondered how others have translated the phrase. I see that Bhikkhu Boddhi's translation says "the unsurpassed surgeon," and his translation of the sutta in his MN collection (MN 92) says "the supreme physician."
So, I am wondering if the Pali phrase actually points to the removal of arrows/darts or if the Pali phrase is closer to the more general physician/surgeon.
Anybody know?
Thanks!

[salayatananirodha]

This is from Venerable Thanissaro's translation of MN 63:

"It's just as if a man were wounded with an arrow thickly smeared with poison. His friends & companions, kinsmen & relatives would provide him with a surgeon, and the man would say, 'I won't have this arrow removed until I know whether the man who wounded me was a noble warrior, a brahman, a merchant, or a worker.' He would say, 'I won't have this arrow removed until I know the given name & clan name of the man who wounded me... until I know whether he was tall, medium, or short... until I know whether he was dark, ruddy-brown, or golden-colored... until I know his home village, town, or city... until I know whether the bow with which I was wounded was a long bow or a crossbow... until I know whether the bowstring with which I was wounded was fiber, bamboo threads, sinew, hemp, or bark... until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded was wild or cultivated... until I know whether the feathers of the shaft with which I was wounded were those of a vulture, a stork, a hawk, a peacock, or another bird... until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded was bound with the sinew of an ox, a water buffalo, a langur, or a monkey.' He would say, 'I won't have this arrow removed until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded was that of a common arrow, a curved arrow, a barbed, a calf-toothed, or an oleander arrow.' The man would die and those things would still remain unknown to him.

I don't know much about ancient Indian medicine, but it's clear from this simile that, whether you call Lord Buddha a physician or a surgeon, he is an arrow remover.

[JohnK]

...whether you call Lord Buddha a physician or a surgeon, he is an arrow remover.

Yes agreed.
My question is whether according to the Pali Sela Sutta (or perhaps anywhere else in the Pali Canon) he refers to himself as an arrow remover (as Thanissaro's translation suggests) or if rather he refers to himself as a physician/surgeon (as Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation suggests -- and as Sujato's at Sutta Central suggests -- I just checked that one); that is, did Thanissaro take some poetic license in translation by utilizing the arrow simile where it was not clearly indicated by the Pali -- no judgement here, just curious.
Reason to ask beyond curiosity: I am interested in right speech, and I might want to say that the Buddha literally refers to himself as an arrow remover, but I don't want to say that if it is more an artifact of translation.

[salayatananirodha]

Well, I compared translations here obo.genaud.net/dhamma-vinaya/thom/mn/mn.063.thom.htm, and all of the English translations render it arrow. You may toggle through them to verify.
I understand what you're saying, but the simile of the arrow is one of the most recurrent similes in the early canon. You could also compare it to abhaya sutta of the majjhima nikaya in which the buddha compares himself to a parent reaching into their child's throat to retrieve a pebble. Repetitive details are hallmarks of real Buddha word, as they render it near impossible to mistranslate, in my opinion.

[pitakele]

In Itivutaka 100, 'The Dhamma Offering', Buddha describes himself as both a physician and surgeon

Bhikkhus, I am a brahmin, ever accessible to entreaties, open-handed, one bearing his last body, an unsurpassed physician and surgeon.

Ahamasmi, bhikkhave, brāhmaṇo yācayogo sadā payatapāṇi antimadehadharo anuttaro bhisakko sallakatto.

https://suttacentral.net/iti100/en/ireland

Ven. Sujāto has discussed the term sallakatta at length and concludes 'translating as “arrow extracting doctor” if literalness is desired, or “field surgeon” for more idiomatic general use.'

https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/do ... darts/4269

[JohnK]

Ven. Sujāto has discussed the term sallakatta at length and concludes 'translating as “arrow extracting doctor” if literalness is desired, or “field surgeon” for more idiomatic general use.'

https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/do ... darts/4269

Thank you for that (also thanks salayatananirodha for engaging in this).
(And it's nice to see that Ven. Sujato also thought the subject was worth some investigation.)
Interesting that there was likely a particular medical specialty that included removing arrows -- so the term does not merely refer to the simile, nor on the other hand to an overgeneralized physician.
To close my curiosity loop, I now have to figure out how to check that sallakatta is the word used in the Sela Sutta (which started this whole thing -- always something to learn!).
Thanks again.

[pitakele]

To close my curiosity loop, I now have to figure out how to check that sallakatta is the word used in the Sela Sutta (which started this whole thing -- always something to learn!).

Yes, it is sallakatta

I, brahmin, am awakened,
The unexcelled surgeon.

Sohaṃ brāhmaṇa sambuddho,
sallakatto anuttaro.

https://suttacentral.net/snp3.7/en/mills-sujato

.

[JohnK]

(I managed to find it by comparing the Pali sutta to an English translation.)