Dear forum
Often it is said Nibbana is the "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion". The Pali word commonly translated as "cessation" is "nirodha".
However, I am unable to find the phrase "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion". I can only find phrases such as ""destruction/removal/empty of greed, hatred & delusion".
Can someone help here.
Thanks
Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?
Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?
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Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?
Dear DooDoot,
Currently there's a popular urban legend about "Nirodha", a strange hybrid of "nirodha-samapatti", and "nirodha" as epithet of Nibbana.
Seems like it started from the writings of Brahmavamso. Evidently this legend is used to justify complete zoning out as a quintessential attainment.
Nibbana is the cessation of suffering, dukkha-nirodha, which is a complete opposite of any zoning out.
Best wishes,
Dmytro
This must be a translation of "rāgakkhayo dosakkhayo mohakkhayo".
The Pali word commonly translated as "cessation" is "nirodha".
Currently there's a popular urban legend about "Nirodha", a strange hybrid of "nirodha-samapatti", and "nirodha" as epithet of Nibbana.
Seems like it started from the writings of Brahmavamso. Evidently this legend is used to justify complete zoning out as a quintessential attainment.
Nibbana is the cessation of suffering, dukkha-nirodha, which is a complete opposite of any zoning out.
Evidently some people translated "khaya" as "cessation".However, I am unable to find the phrase "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion". I can only find phrases such as ""destruction/removal/empty of greed, hatred & delusion".
Best wishes,
Dmytro
Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?
Thank you, Dmytro.
Therefore, "asesavirāganirodho" ("remainderless cessation") would be same as "khaya" but "nirodha" alone is not necessarily the same as "khaya". In other words, can "nirodha" refer to only a "temporary" cessation?
Thanks
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Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?
There is a way in which one could rightly say of me: ‘The ascetic Gotama is an annihilationist who teaches his Dhamma for the sake of annihilation and thereby guides his disciples.’
“And in what way could one rightly say of me: ‘The ascetic Gotama is an annihilationist who teaches his Dhamma for the sake of annihilation and thereby guides his disciples’? For I assert the annihilation of lust, hatred, and delusion; I assert the annihilation of the numerous kinds of bad unwholesome qualities. It is in this way that one could rightly say of me: ‘The ascetic Gotama is an annihilationist who teaches his Dhamma for the sake of annihilation and thereby guides his disciples.’
https://suttacentral.net/en/an8.12
“And in what way could one rightly say of me: ‘The ascetic Gotama is an annihilationist who teaches his Dhamma for the sake of annihilation and thereby guides his disciples’? For I assert the annihilation of lust, hatred, and delusion; I assert the annihilation of the numerous kinds of bad unwholesome qualities. It is in this way that one could rightly say of me: ‘The ascetic Gotama is an annihilationist who teaches his Dhamma for the sake of annihilation and thereby guides his disciples.’
https://suttacentral.net/en/an8.12
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5
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— Ud 5.5
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Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?
Thanks D but this sutta is not relevant to the question. The question is about the nuances of the word "nirodha". RegardsDhammarakkhito wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:09 am For I assert the annihilation (ucchedaṃ) of lust, hatred, and delusion;
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Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?
The phrase exists in the form: rāgassa/dosassa/mohassa nirodhāya: "for the [sake of] the cessation of attachment/aversion/delusion", but to find it one needs to search through the peyyālas.
For example, at AN. 7.615 we have:
Then in the peyyālas to this passage:“Rāgassa, bhikkhave, abhiññāya satta dhammā bhāvetabbā. Katame satta? Satisambojjhaṅgo … pe … upekkhāsambojjhaṅgo: rāgassa, bhikkhave, abhiññāya ime satta dhammā bhāvetabbā” ti.
“For the higher knowledge of attachment, bhikkhus, seven dhammas must be developed. Which seven? The enlightenment factor of mindfulness ... etc. ... the enlightenment factor of equanimity.”
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/pi/an7.615
1. Abhiññāya is replaced with pariññāya, parikkhayāya, pahānāya, khayāya, vayāya, virāgāya, nirodhāya, cāgāya, and paṭinissaggāya.
2. Rāgassa is replaced with dosassa, mohassa … kodhassa, upanāhassa, makkhassa, paḷāsassa, issāya, macchariyassa, māyāya, sāṭheyyassa, thambhassa, sārambhassa, mānassa, atimānassa, madassa and pamādassa.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?
OK. Thank you Venerable Dhammanando. Rāga Peyyāla is AN 7.615 - 124.Dhammanando wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:33 amThe phrase exists in the form: rāgassa/dosassa/mohassa nirodhāya: "for the [sake of] the cessation of attachment/aversion/delusion", but to find it one needs to search through the peyyālas.
Moving to a question I asked Dmytro: "Can nirodha refer to only a temporary cessation"? ThanksDosassa … pe … mohassa … kodhassa … upanāhassa … makkhassa … paḷāsassa … issāya … macchariyassa … māyāya … sāṭheyyassa … thambhassa … sārambhassa … mānassa … atimānassa … madassa … pamādassa abhiññāya … pe … pariññāya … parikkhayāya … pahānāya … khayāya ……: ? vayāya … virāgāya … nirodhāya … cāgāya … paṭinissaggāya … pe … ime satta dhammā bhāvetabbā”ti.
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/pi/an7.645
I suppose the answer is "yes", given the Buddha-To-Be examined the arisings & cessations pertaining to Dependent Origination prior to Full Awakening.
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Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?
Modern adherents of the "Nirodha" myth hold it as an independent self-sufficient term. However, on its own, it just means simple "cessation" of anything - of the rain, of the drought, or whatever.
For a classical list of "cessations" see "anupubba-nirodha":
http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/a/ ... irodha.htm
They are indeed temporary in almost all cases, except the case of Nibbana, which Ven. Dhammanando kindly referred to above.
Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?
[7] "And what is the perception of cessation? There is the case where a monk — having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building — reflects thus: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the stilling of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving, cessation, Unbinding.' This is called the perception of cessation.” —-AN 10:60, Thanissaro.
The term cessation is not linked with the three unwholesome roots because the overcoming of greed, hatred and delusion is an emphatically active process and cessation is a resultant event, occurring after craving has been overcome.
The term cessation is not linked with the three unwholesome roots because the overcoming of greed, hatred and delusion is an emphatically active process and cessation is a resultant event, occurring after craving has been overcome.
Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?
AN 9.31. Thank you Dmytro.Dmytro wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:07 amFor a classical list of "cessations" see "anupubba-nirodha":
http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/a/ ... irodha.htm
Thank you, Paul. Good one (synonymously used for Nibbana).
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
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Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?
Thank you for a quote.paul wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:40 am [7] "And what is the perception of cessation? There is the case where a monk — having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building — reflects thus: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the stilling of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving, cessation, Unbinding.' This is called the perception of cessation.” —-AN 10:60, Thanissaro.
The term cessation is not linked with the three unwholesome roots because the overcoming of greed, hatred and delusion is an emphatically active process and cessation is a resultant event, occurring after craving has been overcome.
In this sutta Buddha recommends "nirodhāsaññā", one of the key practices of wisdom development, described, for example, in Āhuneyya-vagga (AN 4.145):
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2834#p40805
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Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?
In going through articles on nirodha samapatthi , it is found that instead of cessation to mean nirodha , the word extinction has been used.
Nirodha samapatthi had been translated as attainment of extinction. It is quite appropriate that for one who needs higher mental status extinction of loba dosa moha is more appropriate than ceasing the same.
Nirodha samapatthi had been translated as attainment of extinction. It is quite appropriate that for one who needs higher mental status extinction of loba dosa moha is more appropriate than ceasing the same.