Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries

Moderator: Mahavihara moderator

Post Reply
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2313
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?

Post by DooDoot » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:15 am

Dear forum

Often it is said Nibbana is the "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion". The Pali word commonly translated as "cessation" is "nirodha".

However, I am unable to find the phrase "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion". I can only find phrases such as ""destruction/removal/empty of greed, hatred & delusion".

Can someone help here.

Thanks :smile:

User avatar
Dmytro
Posts: 1532
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Contact:

Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?

Post by Dmytro » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:50 am

Dear DooDoot,
DooDoot wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:15 am
Often it is said Nibbana is the "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion".
This must be a translation of "rāgakkhayo dosakkhayo mohakkhayo".
The Pali word commonly translated as "cessation" is "nirodha".


Currently there's a popular urban legend about "Nirodha", a strange hybrid of "nirodha-samapatti", and "nirodha" as epithet of Nibbana.
Seems like it started from the writings of Brahmavamso. Evidently this legend is used to justify complete zoning out as a quintessential attainment.

Nibbana is the cessation of suffering, dukkha-nirodha, which is a complete opposite of any zoning out.
However, I am unable to find the phrase "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion". I can only find phrases such as ""destruction/removal/empty of greed, hatred & delusion".
Evidently some people translated "khaya" as "cessation".

Best wishes,
Dmytro

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2313
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?

Post by DooDoot » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:01 am

Dmytro wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:50 am
Evidently some people translated "khaya" as "cessation".
Thank you, Dmytro.

Therefore, "asesavirāganirodho" ("remainderless cessation") would be same as "khaya" but "nirodha" alone is not necessarily the same as "khaya". In other words, can "nirodha" refer to only a "temporary" cessation?

Thanks

User avatar
Dhammarakkhito
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:31 am
Contact:

Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:09 am

There is a way in which one could rightly say of me: ‘The ascetic Gotama is an annihilationist who teaches his Dhamma for the sake of annihilation and thereby guides his disciples.’
“And in what way could one rightly say of me: ‘The ascetic Gotama is an annihilationist who teaches his Dhamma for the sake of annihilation and thereby guides his disciples’? For I assert the annihilation of lust, hatred, and delusion; I assert the annihilation of the numerous kinds of bad unwholesome qualities. It is in this way that one could rightly say of me: ‘The ascetic Gotama is an annihilationist who teaches his Dhamma for the sake of annihilation and thereby guides his disciples.’

https://suttacentral.net/en/an8.12
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2313
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?

Post by DooDoot » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:28 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:09 am
For I assert the annihilation (ucchedaṃ) of lust, hatred, and delusion;
Thanks D but this sutta is not relevant to the question. The question is about the nuances of the word "nirodha". Regards :)

User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 4029
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Ban Sri Pradu Cremation Ground, Phrao District, Chiangmai

Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?

Post by Dhammanando » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:33 am

DooDoot wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:15 am
However, I am unable to find the phrase "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion". I can only find phrases such as ""destruction/removal/empty of greed, hatred & delusion".

Can someone help here.
The phrase exists in the form: rāgassa/dosassa/mohassa nirodhāya: "for the [sake of] the cessation of attachment/aversion/delusion", but to find it one needs to search through the peyyālas.

For example, at AN. 7.615 we have:
Rāgassa, bhikkhave, abhiññāya satta dhammā bhāvetabbā. Katame satta? Satisambojjhaṅgo … pe … upekkhāsambojjhaṅgo: rāgassa, bhikkhave, abhiññāya ime satta dhammā bhāvetabbā” ti.

“For the higher knowledge of attachment, bhikkhus, seven dhammas must be developed. Which seven? The enlightenment factor of mindfulness ... etc. ... the enlightenment factor of equanimity.”

https://legacy.suttacentral.net/pi/an7.615
Then in the peyyālas to this passage:

1. Abhiññāya is replaced with pariññāya, parikkhayāya, pahānāya, khayāya, vayāya, virāgāya, nirodhāya, cāgāya, and paṭinissaggāya.

2. Rāgassa is replaced with dosassa, mohassa … kodhassa, upanāhassa, makkhassa, paḷāsassa, issāya, macchariyassa, māyāya, sāṭheyyassa, thambhassa, sārambhassa, mānassa, atimānassa, madassa and pamādassa.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2313
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?

Post by DooDoot » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:50 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:33 am
The phrase exists in the form: rāgassa/dosassa/mohassa nirodhāya: "for the [sake of] the cessation of attachment/aversion/delusion", but to find it one needs to search through the peyyālas.
OK. Thank you Venerable Dhammanando. Rāga Peyyāla is AN 7.615 - 124.
Dosassa … pe … mohassa … kodhassa … upanāhassa … makkhassa … paḷāsassa … issāya … macchariyassa … māyāya … sāṭheyyassa … thambhassa … sārambhassa … mānassa … atimānassa … madassa … pamādassa abhiññāya … pe … pariññāya … parikkhayāya … pahānāya … khayāya ……: ? vayāya … virāgāya … nirodhāya … cāgāya … paṭinissaggāya … pe … ime satta dhammā bhāvetabbā”ti.

https://legacy.suttacentral.net/pi/an7.645
Moving to a question I asked Dmytro: "Can nirodha refer to only a temporary cessation"? Thanks

I suppose the answer is "yes", given the Buddha-To-Be examined the arisings & cessations pertaining to Dependent Origination prior to Full Awakening.

User avatar
Dmytro
Posts: 1532
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Contact:

Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?

Post by Dmytro » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:07 am

DooDoot wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:01 am
Therefore, "asesavirāganirodho" ("remainderless cessation") would be same as "khaya" but "nirodha" alone is not necessarily the same as "khaya". In other words, can "nirodha" refer to only a "temporary" cessation?
Modern adherents of the "Nirodha" myth hold it as an independent self-sufficient term. However, on its own, it just means simple "cessation" of anything - of the rain, of the drought, or whatever.

For a classical list of "cessations" see "anupubba-nirodha":

http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/a/ ... irodha.htm

They are indeed temporary in almost all cases, except the case of Nibbana, which Ven. Dhammanando kindly referred to above.

paul
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 11:27 pm
Location: Vietnam

Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?

Post by paul » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:40 am

[7] "And what is the perception of cessation? There is the case where a monk — having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building — reflects thus: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the stilling of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving, cessation, Unbinding.' This is called the perception of cessation.” —-AN 10:60, Thanissaro.

The term cessation is not linked with the three unwholesome roots because the overcoming of greed, hatred and delusion is an emphatically active process and cessation is a resultant event, occurring after craving has been overcome.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2313
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?

Post by DooDoot » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:53 am

Dmytro wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:07 am
For a classical list of "cessations" see "anupubba-nirodha":

http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/a/ ... irodha.htm
AN 9.31. Thank you Dmytro.
paul wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:40 am
AN 10:60
Thank you, Paul. Good one (synonymously used for Nibbana).

:anjali:

User avatar
Dmytro
Posts: 1532
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Contact:

Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?

Post by Dmytro » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:42 pm

paul wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:40 am
[7] "And what is the perception of cessation? There is the case where a monk — having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building — reflects thus: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the stilling of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving, cessation, Unbinding.' This is called the perception of cessation.” —-AN 10:60, Thanissaro.

The term cessation is not linked with the three unwholesome roots because the overcoming of greed, hatred and delusion is an emphatically active process and cessation is a resultant event, occurring after craving has been overcome.
Thank you for a quote.

In this sutta Buddha recommends "nirodhāsaññā", one of the key practices of wisdom development, described, for example, in Āhuneyya-vagga (AN 4.145):

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2834#p40805

justindesilva
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Re: Is the term "cessation of greed, hatred & delusion" in the suttas?

Post by justindesilva » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:53 pm

In going through articles on nirodha samapatthi , it is found that instead of cessation to mean nirodha , the word extinction has been used.
Nirodha samapatthi had been translated as attainment of extinction. It is quite appropriate that for one who needs higher mental status extinction of loba dosa moha is more appropriate than ceasing the same.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests