Pali Term: Sakkāya

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries
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DooDoot
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Re: Pali Term: Sakkāya

Post by DooDoot »

Dhammanando wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:07 am Yes. Sa + kāya gives the commentarial word sakāya, "one's own body", which is the opposite of parakāya, "another's body".
Venerable Dhammanando

Returning to sakkāya; itself is a compound of sat + kāya, lit: “existing body”, more idiomatically, “embodiment” or “identity”.

Is sat + kāya related to "sato/sati" in sato sattassa?
There are some ascetics and brahmins who are annihilationists. They assert the annihilation, eradication, and obliteration of an existing being on seven grounds.

Santi, bhikkhave, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā ucchedavādā sato sattassa ucchedaṃ vināsaṃ vibhavaṃ paññapenti sattahi vatthūhi.
Also, another question. What is sattassa genitive or dative? Does it mean "being's existence", that is, is genitive?

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ToVincent
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Re: Pali Term: Sakkāya

Post by ToVincent »

The sandhi in Pali, seems to be sa + k + Ka + iya. (as in para + kamo = parakkamo (going away)) .

Where sa [adj] (=sva in Sanskrit) = one's own.

Then Sakkāyadiṭṭhi becomes: "the view that the body (viz. what belongs to Ka (Prajapati made self(ves) = Ka-iya), is one's own.

Note:
Nicca in Sanskrit is nitya (नित्य). And it has two meanings in the Vedic litterature, as seen in the Monier-Williams dictionary:

- one’s own ( opp. to araṇa ) (RV) .
And
- continual, perpetual (permanent), eternal, (RV) .

Anicca means "impermanent" AND "not one's own".

The difference between nicca & sa, is in the scope of what exactly is (wrongly) believed to be one's owness - and to be more precise, where this belief in one's owness does start.

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Some working for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; some for the Unborn.
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Those who desire good are few, and those who desire evil are many.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Pali Term: Sakkāya

Post by Coëmgenu »

Dhammanando wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:07 am
davidbrainerd wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:17 amI think its the doubling of the k. i.e that sa + kaya would be sakaya, but sat + kaya the t from sat assimilates to an extra k, sakkaya. Am I correct in this?
Yes. Sa + kāya gives the commentarial word sakāya, "one's own body", which is the opposite of parakāya, "another's body".
Bhante, I hear of "sakāya" parsed as "satkāya," which is given in the sense of "this body" AFAIK. Is the Pāli commentary suggesting a Sanskrit back-formation more like "svākāya" or "svakāya?" In the case of svākāya, the k absorbs the timing unit from the formerly long vowel as it shortens and the consonant cluster drops out, this resuling in gemination of that k ("kk").
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ToVincent
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Re: Pali Term: Sakkāya

Post by ToVincent »

Another possibility — still considering the sandhi a+k =kk, as in parakkamo (para + kamo) — would be to see kāya as the active of ci.
So whatever is acted by ci, is "one's own" ("sa") — is what is meant by sakkāya.

So sakkāyadiṭṭhi would mean that, whatever declension of ci (citta, ceto, etc.), is viewed as one's own.
Which (the contrary - namely "this is not yours"), is the gist of early, echt Buddhism -- something that some universalists do not seem to be ready to digest yet.
Nor are they ready to digest the nasti-Ka (no Ka = no self) distinctive feature of echt and early Buddhism.
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.
Some working for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; some for the Unborn.
.
Those who desire good are few, and those who desire evil are many.
Buddha
(And you just can't imagine how much goodness, those who desire evil, are ready to display - ToVincent).
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