A. Sujato's Why Vitakka Doesn't Mean 'Thinking' in Jhana

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Re: A. Sujato's Why Vitakka Doesn't Mean 'Thinking' in Jhana

Post by Volovsky » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:35 pm

Dmytro wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:07 pm
Well, detailed analysis of this question would be off topic here.
Ok, I will answer there.

frank k
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Re: A. Sujato's Why Vitakka Doesn't Mean 'Thinking' in Jhana

Post by frank k » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:34 pm

hi Dmytro, in response too the passage quoting upavicarati with 18 mental explorations (somanassa, domonassa, upekkha) x 6 sense bases,
in Vism. jhana of appana samadhi, vicara would not be able to do that. It has to first emerge from the frozen state of appana samadhi, then it can do vicara of 18 mental exploration back in upacara samadhi.

Interesting that in Vimt., which uses an earlier Abhdhamma, they define appana samadhi as the 5 hindrances being "destroyed". So under Vimt. earth kasina, even appana samadhi can do the 18 mental explorations of upa-vicara. And it could also do metta and 4bv (brahma vihara) with thought & evaluation. In vism. metta, it's similar to vimt. metta, but then they add in a visual kasina (person you're sending metta to) for the appana samadhi portion which is not in vimt.

while Vism. acknowledges existence of wind kasina using tactile sensation, also for anapana, it doesn't give any instruction on how to do it, ignoring all the instructions in Vimt (for anapana tactile). In Vimt, they don't acknowledge visual kasina method of anapana jhana, they only talk about tactile sensation jhana. There is definitely a deliberate suppression of tactile anapana in Vism, it's not just Pa Auk and modern interpretations of Vism.
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