Nandī and nandati in MN 1: synonyms of taṇhā?

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starter
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Nandī and nandati in MN 1: synonyms of taṇhā?

Post by starter »

Greetings!

From MN 1:

"Tathāgatopi, bhikkhave, arahaṃ sammāsambuddho pathaviṃ pathavito abhijānāti; pathaviṃ pathavito abhiññāya pathaviṃ na maññati, pathaviyā na maññati, pathavito na maññati, pathaviṃ meti na maññati, pathaviṃ nābhinandati. Taṃ kissa hetu? ‘Nandī dukkhassa mūlan’ti—iti viditvā ‘bhavā jāti bhūtassa jarāmaraṇan’ti. Tasmātiha, bhikkhave, ‘tathāgato sabbaso taṇhānaṃ khayā virāgā nirodhā cāgā paṭinissaggā anuttaraṃ sammāsambodhiṃ abhisambuddho’ti vadāmi."

"Bhikkhus, the Tathāgata, too, accomplished and fully enlightened, directly knows earth as earth. Having directly known earth as earth, he does not conceive himself as earth, he does not conceive himself in earth, he does not conceive himself apart from earth, he does not conceive earth to be ‘mine,’ he does not crave for earth. Why is that? Because he has understood that craving is the root of suffering, and that with being as condition there is birth, and that for whatever has come to be there is ageing and death. Therefore, bhikkhus, through the complete destruction, fading away, cessation, giving up, and relinquishing of cravings, the Tathāgata has awakened to supreme full enlightenment, I say." [The same sequence applies to the All and Nibbana]

I've been wondering about the translation of "Nandī" in ‘Nandīdukkhassa mūlan’ti' (usually translated as "delight is the root of suffering") and "nandati" in "pathaviṃ nābhinandati" (usually translated as "he does not delight in ...) in MN 1. It seems to me that in the context of MN 1 both "nandī" and "nandati" are synonyms of "taṇhā", craving (with the fever of unsatisfied longing) instead of "delight", based upon the following:

1) In MN 1, all three words "nandati", "nandī", and "taṇhā" were used consecutively, referring to the same thing in the same context. We know that the Buddha appeared to have the habit of using several synonyms to describe the same thing;

2) According to the Pali Text Society's Pali-English Dictionary, "nandī" was used as a synonym of "taṇhā" if I understand it correctly: Nd2 330 (=taṇhā); Pug 57; Dhs 1059≈(in def. of taṇhā);

3) The translation of "he should not delight/rejoice in Nibbana" (for trainees) or "delight/joy is the root of suffering" could be misleading, since there is wholesome delight/joy that the Buddha encouraged, such as gladdening mind, and joy as an enlightenment factor. Furthermore, even the Buddha found the sense objects "delightful" as stated in the translation of DN 16:

"Delightful (ramaṇīyā: lovely), Ānanda, is Rājagaha, delightful is the Vulture’s Peak Mountain, delightful is the Gotama Banyan Tree, delightful is the Thieves’ Precipice, delightful is the side of the Vebhāra mountain in the Seven Leaves Cave, delightful is the side of the Isigili mountain on Black Rock, delightful is the Cool Wood, at the Snake Tank Slope, delightful is the River Tapodā Monastery, delightful is the Squirrel’s Feeding Place in Bamboo Wood, delightful is Jīvaka’s Mango Wood, delightful is the Deer Park at the place called Crushing Womb." [From http://suttacentral.net/en/dn16]

So it's not that we should have no delight/joy, but that we should not have craving -- as long as there is no unsatisfied longing/fever associated with the delight which disturbs the peace of mind, then it seems to be fine.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks and metta! :anjali:
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frank k
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Re: Nandī and nandati in MN 1: synonyms of taṇhā?

Post by frank k »

2nd noble truth definition from SN 56.11 dhammacakkappavattana

(quoting from memory and don't remember all the diacritics)
idam kho pana bhikkhave, dukkha samudayaṃ ariya saccaṃ: ya yaṃ tanha ponobhavika. nandi-rāga, saha gata , tatra tatra abhi-nandati. seyyathidaṃ...
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starter
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Re: Nandī and nandati in MN 1: synonyms of taṇhā?

Post by starter »

Happy new year!

Thanks for your contributions to the discussions. I've just come back to the forum and will read your posts(especially those new ones in my threads) in more details later.

Frank:

I found the following paragraph at Suttacentral:

"Idaṃ kho pana, bhikkhave, duk­kha­sa­muda­yaṃ ariyasaccaṃ—yāyaṃ taṇhā ponobbhavikā nandi­rāga­saha­gatānandirāga tatra­tat­rā­bhinan­dinī, seyyathidaṃ—kāmataṇhā, bhavataṇhā, vibhavataṇhā."

I suppose the translation is:

"Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of the origin of suffering: it is this craving which leads to renewed existence, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there; that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, craving for extermination."

Since I haven't learned Pali, would you (or someone else) please tell me which words are translated as "delight" in the paragraph, the highlighted ones above?

Thanks and have a great year full of good progress and peace!

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culaavuso
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Re: Nandī and nandati in MN 1: synonyms of taṇhā?

Post by culaavuso »

starter wrote: Since I haven't learned Pali, would you (or someone else) please tell me which words are translated as "delight" in the paragraph, the highlighted ones above?
In the first instance the word translated as "delight" is nandi as highlighted. In the second instance it appears that only the ending of abhinandin is highlighted.
Sylvester
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Re: Nandī and nandati in MN 1: synonyms of taṇhā?

Post by Sylvester »

Hi starter

Take a look at MN 38 and SN 22.5. Nandi is quite unequivocally identified as clinging. In the former, delight is discussed in the context of the 18 types of feelings, while the latter discusses delight in the 5 Aggregates. See also SN 12.32 on delight in the 3 kinds of feelings.
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