te sela ramayanti mam

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JohnK
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te sela ramayanti mam

Post by JohnK » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:39 pm

Can someone "unpack" this phrase a bit fore me?
It appears a few times in the Theragatha, e.g., Maha Kassapa repeats it seven times.
It is translated as "Those rocky crags refresh me" (Thanissaro); "These rocky crags delight me" (Sujato).
I gather "sela" is "rocky," but I would like to understand the rest.
Thank you.
:bow:

Edit: there is a horizontal line over the "a" in "sela" and a dot under the last "m" in "mam."
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the world creating friction. [Sn4:9,v.847]

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mikenz66
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Re: te sela ramayanti mam

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:24 pm

Here's the reference:
https://suttacentral.net/thag1.13/en/sujato#5.4
these rocky crags delight me!
te selā ramayanti man”ti.
The automatic lookup on Sutta Central does not translate ramayanti. Looking up "rama" and "yanti" (just type into the Sutta Central serach box) gives
rama: delighting, enjoyable; https://suttacentral.net/search?query=rama
[url]https://suttacentral.net/search?query=yanti seems to point to it being a form of yāti: goes on; proceeds.

:heart:
Mike

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Sam Vara
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Re: te sela ramayanti mam

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:46 pm

JohnK wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:39 pm
Can someone "unpack" this phrase a bit fore me?
It appears a few times in the Theragatha, e.g., Maha Kassapa repeats it seven times.
It is translated as "Those rocky crags refresh me" (Thanissaro); "These rocky crags delight me" (Sujato).
I gather "sela" is "rocky," but I would like to understand the rest.
Thank you.
:bow:

Edit: there is a horizontal line over the "a" in "sela" and a dot under the last "m" in "mam."
I've not met the term sela before, but it looks here to be a masculine noun in the nominative: "Rocky crags" is what the phrase is about. Te is "these"; the nominative plural of tad. Ramaniya is "delightful", so I assume this is an active plural form meaning "(they) delight". Mam (or man if it proceeds the 'ti) just means "me"

JohnK
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Location: Tetons, Wyoming, USA

Re: te sela ramayanti mam

Post by JohnK » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:57 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:24 pm
...
Thank you, Mike.
One can see how translation is an art.
Interesting to see that the definition of "rama" includes "mano" (gladdening of the heart), a phrase I associate with a result of generosity (and so with no tinge of the potential danger of "delight").
And here (just for completeness) is the Maha Kassapa reference:
https://suttacentral.net/thag18.1/en/sujato
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the world creating friction. [Sn4:9,v.847]

JohnK
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Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:06 pm
Location: Tetons, Wyoming, USA

Re: te sela ramayanti mam

Post by JohnK » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:03 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:46 pm
...
And thank you, Sam.
May we all have some wholesome delight.
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the world creating friction. [Sn4:9,v.847]

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Sam Vara
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Re: te sela ramayanti mam

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:36 pm

JohnK wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:03 pm

May we all have some wholesome delight.
Well, living in the Tetons, you have the rocky crags; so may the delight accompany them!

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Volo
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Re: te sela ramayanti mam

Post by Volo » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:37 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:24 pm
Here's the reference:
https://suttacentral.net/thag1.13/en/sujato#5.4
these rocky crags delight me!
te selā ramayanti man”ti.
The automatic lookup on Sutta Central does not translate ramayanti. Looking up "rama" and "yanti" (just type into the Sutta Central serach box) gives
rama: delighting, enjoyable; https://suttacentral.net/search?query=rama
[url]https://suttacentral.net/search?query=yanti seems to point to it being a form of yāti: goes on; proceeds.

:heart:
Mike
Ramayati = rameti (e is a short form of aya) is a causative of ramati, so it would be "to cause to enjoy" (ramati means "to enjoy").

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mikenz66
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Re: te sela ramayanti mam

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:57 am

Volo wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:37 am
Ramayati = rameti (e is a short form of aya) is a causative of ramati, so it would be "to cause to enjoy" (ramati means "to enjoy").
Thanks! I was hoping for some expert explanation. There's only so much I can do with the Sutta Central dictionaries...

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Mike

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