Kamanita 18: Stubborn Because Of Love

Post sayings and stories you find interesting or useful.
Post Reply
User avatar
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:23 pm

Kamanita 18: Stubborn Because Of Love

Post by yawares » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:00 am

Dear members,

I Think Kamanita was stubborn because of his love for Vasitthi, he wanted the Buddha to preach about going to heaven and be happy forever(he wanted to meet Vasitthi in heaven as they promised each other).

:heart: Kamanita And Vasitthi :heart:

"Did you not say to me," asked the Buddha, "that
within a month you would sit at the feet of the Master in
the Grove of Jetavana near Sāvatthi?"

"I assuredly hope to do so, Venerable Sir; why do
you ask me?"

"When you sit at the feet of the Tathāgata, what do
you think, my friend — is the physical form which you
will see then, which you will be able to touch with your
hand — along with the mind that then reveals itself, with
its sensations, perceptions and ideas — do you see that as
being the Tathāgata, the Perfect One, do you look upon it
as such?"

"I do not, Venerable Sir."

"Perhaps then, you would see the Tathāgata as
being in the body and mind — do you look upon it like

"I do not, Venerable Sir."

"Then may it be, my friend, that you see the
Tathāgata as apart from the body and the mind?"

"I do not look upon it in that light, Venerable Sir."

"Do you think, then, that the Tathāgata is the
owner of that body and that mind? Is that your view, my

"That is not the way I see it, Venerable Sir."

"Do you see the Tathāgata then, as having no body
and no mind?"

"He is apart from them in so far as his being is not
fully comprehended within those elements."

"What elements or powers have you then, my
friend, apart from those of the body with all its qualities of
which we are aware through the senses, and apart from
those of the mind with all its sensations, perceptions and
ideas — what powers have you beyond these, by means
of which you can fully apprehend what you have not yet
apprehended in the being of the Tathāgata?"

"Such further powers, Venerable Sir, I must acknow‐
ledge I do not possess."

"Then even here, friend Kāmanīta, in the world of
senses, the Tathāgata is not in truth and in his very es‐
sence, apprehendible by you. Is it then right to say that
the Tathāgata — or any one of those who have freed
themselves from all delusion — is doomed to annihilation
when his life ends, that he does not exist beyond death,
solely because you are not in possession of any powers by
which you can, in truth, apprehend him in his very essence there?"

Questioned in such fashion, Kāmanīta sat speech‐
less for some time, his body bent, his head bowed.
"Even if I have no right to make that assertion," he
said finally, "it still seems to me to be implied plainly
enough in the silence of the Tathāgata. For he certainly
would not have maintained such a silence if he had had
anything joyous to communicate, which would of course
be the case if he knew that for the one who had conque‐
red suffering there remained after death not only not
annihilation, but eternal and blessèd life. It is certain that
such a communication could only serve as a spur to his
disciples and be a help to them in their spiritual efforts."

****************to be continued**********

Edited by yawares :heart:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests