The thing about Mahayana

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
polo
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The thing about Mahayana

Post by polo » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:08 am

Recently I watched on youtube a Taiwanese monk who spoke at length on Mahayana Buddhism. He described how Mahayana had changed and also adulterated what Buddha really taught.
I actually hesitated to write about this here because I am afraid people will think I am bashing Mahayana.
I wouldn't go into details what transpired during the talk by this monk. And by the way he spoke in Mandarin so I believe vast majority of people reading this forum wouldn't understand Mandarin.
Well, we all want the actually teaching of Buddha don't we? Pure Buddhism, just like when you smoke weed you want the real weed not some other stuff right?
I don't have time to go further into details because I am going to the Gym now. I go to Gym not because I want body beautiful, oh no, nothing beautiful about the body it is just a conglomeration of filth. I need to exercise otherwise I will fall sick
When I come back from the Gym I hope to see some respond to my post here. Any die-hard Mahayanians here?

SarathW
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Re: The thing about Mahayana

Post by SarathW » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:21 am

The best place to ask this question is Dharma Wheel our sister website dedicated to Mahayana.
Having said that, you can discuss this in "connection to other paths" section.
However you must be able to show that it is connection to Theravada.

https://dharmawheel.net/
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Dan74
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: The thing about Mahayana

Post by Dan74 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:25 am

Rather than an anonymous Taiwanese monk, these Theravada teachers are some of the best ones in recent times:

http://chuadieuphap.us/English_Section/ ... hayana.asp

https://www.amaravati.org/the-view-from-the-centre/

https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/theravada-mahayana/
_/|\_

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Alīno
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Re: The thing about Mahayana

Post by Alīno » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:00 am

Untill there is N8P and 4NT there is Dhamma.

When i was young i used to be a holy-war warrior agains Mahayana and all deviations from Pali Canon, and it was a source of big suffering for me and others...
We are all brothers and sisters in this Dhamma. We shouldn't watch what others do, we should better watch our own practice. I have conviction that Mahayana pactitioners practice as well as we do, maybe better, the N8P and 4NT.

:group:
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...

SteRo
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Re: The thing about Mahayana

Post by SteRo » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:35 am

polo wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:08 am
When I come back from the Gym I hope to see some respond to my post here.
your hope is fulfilled, right?

polo
Posts: 200
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:22 pm

Re: The thing about Mahayana

Post by polo » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:47 am

Alīno wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:00 am
Untill there is N8P and 4NT there is Dhamma.

When i was young i used to be a holy-war warrior agains Mahayana and all deviations from Pali Canon, and it was a source of big suffering for me and others...
We are all brothers and sisters in this Dhamma. We shouldn't watch what others do, we should better watch our own practice. I have conviction that Mahayana pactitioners practice as well as we do, maybe better, the N8P and 4NT.

:group:
Are Buddhists supposed to be telling the truth at all times? What more to change the teachings of Buddha- mispresent them as truth to the whole world.
I am not here to condemn them or to judge them I am here to present the facts and let people who are not aware of these facts judge for themselves.

Dan74
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: The thing about Mahayana

Post by Dan74 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:54 am

sorry... removed on second thoughts
_/|\_

tamdrin
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Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand

Re: The thing about Mahayana

Post by tamdrin » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:30 pm

Hi Polo,

There is a well known monk from Thailand named Ajahn Anan. There is a talk on youtube where he is questioned about the Mahayana. In it he says that the Mahayana bodhisattvas such as Manjushri and Avalokitesvara are indeed real. They are highly developed spiritual beings who answer prayers and help others. He also says that some of the bodhisattvas have the same level of peace as non-returners.

you can find the talk here:


daveblack
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Re: The thing about Mahayana

Post by daveblack » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:46 pm

polo wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:08 am
Recently I watched on youtube a Taiwanese monk who spoke at length on Mahayana Buddhism. He described how Mahayana had changed and also adulterated what Buddha really taught.
The opening to the Lotus Sutra (just read the first 3 to 5 chapters) admits that for 40 years Buddha never taught Mahayana. It claims he taught it on the day of his death only. But to me this is a clear admission that it was invented after his death (because he wouldn't teach an entirely new teaching on the day of his death). Eventually, because Mahayana rejected Individual Liberation, and claimed only Corporate Liberation is possible, it eventually had to deny the distinction between Nirvana and Samsara, because if nobody can be liberated (get to nibbana) by themself but everyone must be liberated at once or there is no liberation, then you might as well deny that nirvana even exists at that point, which is what they end up doing in saying nirvana and samsara are one and the same; that's the same as saying there is only samsara and nirvana is not possible, which is what Mahayana ultimately turned into; as is especially obvious with Thích Nhất Hạnh's teachings. Ultimately, therefore, Mahayana is a denial of the 3rd noble truth; it denies that liberation is possible.

tamdrin
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Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand

Re: The thing about Mahayana

Post by tamdrin » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:02 pm

Mahayana doesn't deny liberation is possible. There are 10 bhumis, or stages to complete Buddhahood in Mahayana. If you get to the first stage which means you realize emptiness, you don't have to reincarnate in samsara anymore.

SteRo
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Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am

Re: The thing about Mahayana

Post by SteRo » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:15 pm

tamdrin wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:02 pm
Mahayana doesn't deny liberation is possible. There are 10 bhumis, or stages to complete Buddhahood in Mahayana. If you get to the first stage which means you realize emptiness, you don't have to reincarnate in samsara anymore.
you seem to confuse 'rebirth in lower realms' with 'rebirth in samsara'.

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Aloka
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Re: The thing about Mahayana

Post by Aloka » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:57 pm

tamdrin wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:02 pm
Mahayana doesn't deny liberation is possible. There are 10 bhumis, or stages to complete Buddhahood in Mahayana. If you get to the first stage which means you realize emptiness, you don't have to reincarnate in samsara anymore.
It is my impression that the 10 Bhumis (Bodhisattva levels) are usually taught in Tibetan Vajrayana buddhism, rather than in the various Mahayana schools in general.

It is said that the levels are:

1. Supreme Joy
2. Immaculate
3.Illuminator
4.Radiant
5. Difficult to Practice.
6. Revealed.
7. Far Gone
8.Immovable
9. Perfect Discernment
10. Cloud of Dharma (Buddha level)

[ list of 10 Bhumis taken from "Path to Buddhahood" by Ringu Tulku ]

:anjali:

.
Last edited by Aloka on Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

polo
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Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:22 pm

Re: The thing about Mahayana

Post by polo » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:30 pm

tamdrin wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:30 pm
Hi Polo,

There is a well known monk from Thailand named Ajahn Anan. There is a talk on youtube where he is questioned about the Mahayana. In it he says that the Mahayana bodhisattvas such as Manjushri and Avalokitesvara are indeed real. They are highly developed spiritual beings who answer prayers and help others. He also says that some of the bodhisattvas have the same level of peace as non-returners.

you can find the talk here:

Hi Tamdrin, how are feeling today? I hope you have calm nice day. Thanks for your reply to my question.
I hope to hear from you some day. Metta

daveblack
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:44 pm

Re: The thing about Mahayana

Post by daveblack » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:54 pm

tamdrin wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:02 pm
Mahayana doesn't deny liberation is possible. There are 10 bhumis, or stages to complete Buddhahood in Mahayana. If you get to the first stage which means you realize emptiness, you don't have to reincarnate in samsara anymore.
It denies Individual Liberation is possible by asserting that nobody enters Nirvana until everyone else does. And since everyone else won't, and even if they tried, if they followed Mahayana, they vowed not to enter until everybody else did, and so they won't enter even if they can, and the result is nobody enters, and thus it denies liberation. Then realizing the mess it made by making everyone vow not to enter until everyone else does, which would make nobody ever enter (except for non-Mahayanans who didn't make the silly vow), the Mahayanans then turn around and declare Nirvana and Samsara to be one and the same, to cover over the logical problem created by their concept of vowing not to enter until everyone else does, so that now they can claim we are all already in Nirvana while suffering in Samsara.

Dan74
Posts: 3184
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: The thing about Mahayana

Post by Dan74 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:57 pm

Aloka wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:57 pm
tamdrin wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:02 pm
Mahayana doesn't deny liberation is possible. There are 10 bhumis, or stages to complete Buddhahood in Mahayana. If you get to the first stage which means you realize emptiness, you don't have to reincarnate in samsara anymore.
It is my impression that the 10 Bhumis (Bodhisattva levels) are usually taught in Tibetan Vajrayana buddhism, rather than in the various Mahayana schools in general.

It is said that the levels are:

1. Supreme Joy
2. Immaculate
3.Illuminator
4.Radiant
5. Difficult to Practice.
6. Revealed.
7. Far Gone
8.Immovable
9. Perfect Discernment
10. Cloud of Dharma (Buddha level)


:anjali:

.
The bhumis are described in the Flower Ornament Scripture which was extensively studied in Chinese Buddhism.

I think misinterpretations of the Bodhisattva path as taught in Mahayana abound here. There are also links to helpful materials if folks are interested in learning.
_/|\_

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