Arahantship already here?

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Arahantship already here?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Greetings


Is there anything in the commentaries or in the general orthodoxy that states that enlightenment or nibbana cannot already be present (i think i made a mistake using the word arahantship)?



Metta
“Bhikkhus, whatever is not yours, abandon it. When you have abandoned it, that will lead to your welfare and happiness. ” SN 35:101

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kc2dpt
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Re: Arahantship already here?

Post by kc2dpt »

clw_uk wrote:Is there anything in the commentaries or in the general orthodoxy that states that enlightenment or nibbana cannot already be present (i think i made a mistake using the word arahantship)?
Again, it simply makes no sense.
I am already enlightened, if only I would just stop being unenlightened.
I am already awake, if only I would just stop being asleep.
Suffering has already ceased, if only suffering would just stop arising.

"This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Nibbana." — AN 3.32

The end of craving is already present, if only craving would just stop arising.
Dispassion is already present, if only passion would just stop arising.

Do you understand the goal of the path? The end of craving, the end of ignorance, the end of suffering. It simply makes no sense to say these things are already present when they aren't.

Sure, we do not need to acquire some physical thing we presently do not have - a book, a zafu, a house. Rather we need to stop doing something. We need to stop craving, stop becoming, stop repeating bad habits, etc. So I suppose we could say "Everything you will have as an arahant you presently have, the same arms, the same legs, the same sense of smell, etc." But that's really not much of a statement.

Still, there is plenty we do need to acquire: insight, persistence, effort, mindfulness, concentration, conviction, and more.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Arahantship already here?

Post by Ngawang Drolma. »

Peter wrote:
clw_uk wrote:Is there anything in the commentaries or in the general orthodoxy that states that enlightenment or nibbana cannot already be present (i think i made a mistake using the word arahantship)?
Again, it simply makes no sense.
I am already enlightened, if only I would just stop being unenlightened.
I am already awake, if only I would just stop being asleep.
Suffering has already ceased, if only suffering would just stop arising.

"This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Nibbana." — AN 3.32

The end of craving is already present, if only craving would just stop arising.
Dispassion is already present, if only passion would just stop arising.

Do you understand the goal of the path? The end of craving, the end of ignorance, the end of suffering. It simply makes no sense to say these things are already present when they aren't.

Sure, we do not need to acquire some physical thing we presently do not have - a book, a zafu, a house. Rather we need to stop doing something. We need to stop craving, stop becoming, stop repeating bad habits, etc. So I suppose we could say "Everything you will have as an arahant you presently have, the same arms, the same legs, the same sense of smell, etc." But that's really not much of a statement.

Still, there is plenty we do need to acquire: insight, persistence, effort, mindfulness, concentration, conviction, and more.
:bow:

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