where is Maha Kasappa now?

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robertk
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Re: where is Maha Kasappa now?

Post by robertk »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:20 pm
seeker242 wrote: Eternalism isn't the teaching
Yes, but eternity is the teaching
This is the classical Theravada forum. Not "connections to other paths".
warning issued.
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confusedlayman
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Re: where is Maha Kasappa now?

Post by confusedlayman »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:17 pm The Commentary to the Dīghanikāya (DA.ii.413) states:
Tattha visākhā upāsikā vīsavassasataṃ jīvati, tathā pokkharasāti brāhmaṇo, brahmāyu brāhmaṇo, selo brāhmaṇo, bāvariyabrāhmaṇo, ānandatthero, mahākassapattheroti. Anuruddhatthero pana vassasatañceva paṇṇāsañca vassāni, bākulatthero vassasatañceva saṭṭhi ca vassāni. ayaṃ sabbadīghāyuko. Sopi dve vassasatāni na jīvati.
  1. The female lay-disciple Visākhā lived to 120 years, so too did the brahmins Pokkharasāti, Brahmāyu, Selo, and Bāvariya, and Venerable Ānanda and Mahākassapa.
  2. Venerable Anuruddha lived to 150 years.
  3. Venerable Bākula lived to 160 years. This is the longest lifespan.
  4. None lived to 200 years.
Dictionary of Pali Proper Names wrote:According, to northern sources, Kassapa did not die; he dwells in the Kukkuṭagiri Mountains, wrapt in concentration, awaiting the arrival of Metteyya Buddha (Beal, op.cit., ii.142 f ).
Fruitless discussions among Buddhists will, no doubt, last a lot longer than 200 years.
thank you Bhikku, you are right. Long life span has to do with physic power and intention or good karma or parami. Maha Kasappa attained nibbana final.
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whynotme
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Re: where is Maha Kasappa now?

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confusedlayman wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:32 pm
why? why not an eon?
Speaking of eon, its said that when an eon coming to an end, seven suns arise in series.

What does that mean? Maybe not seven suns, but at the end of eon, seven planets in solar system is attracted by gravity to the sun, and by going closer to the sun, they are getting brighter so it looks like seven suns appear on the sky. Maybe that is the end of the solar system. Its called the end of an eon by fire. IIRC, that is what is described in the sutta. After seven times destroyed by fire, an eon is destroyed by water, after seven times destroyed by water, its destroyed by wind.

So maybe the first is the collapse of a solar system. The second maybe the destroy of a galaxy, and the last, maybe a big bang, it blows everything away like a wind. A big crunch maybe, or a collapse of space which blows like a wind.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: where is Maha Kasappa now?

Post by Coëmgenu »

confusedlayman wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:24 pm Just was reading Maha Kasappa biography where later life and death was not given or not known. Some other place on internet long back I read he is still alive in mountain cave and waiting for next buddha to come where he given alms bowl or robe to new buddha.
This is a common myth. If you believe certain people, they will tell you that Venerable Nāgārjuna is still alive living in a cave in the Himalayan mountains prolonging his life with "body alchemy" while waiting to meet Maitreya post-Buddhatva.

I would be surprised if it showed up in the Pāli Canon.
If you see a river, pray that beings gain entrance into the stream and into the ocean of wisdom. If you see a reservoir, pray that beings swiftly taste the one taste of the Dharma. If you see a pond, pray that beings become great in locution and skillful in preaching. If you see a well, pray that beings draw deep from the well of reason to disclose all dharmas. If you see a spring, pray that beings have inexhaustible roots of virtue. If you see a bridge, pray that beings carry all across to safety, as via a bridge. If you see a waterfall, pray that all beings cleanse the stains of delusion.
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Re: where is Maha Kasappa now?

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It has been stated in the suttas that certain Maha Arahants had the magic power to extened their life until the end of the aeon, this has been shown to be possible for the Buddha, and Maha Moggalana, I've not seen other cases of Arahants who had this power. Although just because it is not mentioned does not mean they could not. A genius like Sariputta surely could extend his like like Rick from Rick and Morty. So there could be some immortal arahnats out there. Who knows, maybe this is where the myth of vampires came from or shows like doctor who and Rick and Morty. In the movie The Forbiddon Kingdom, Jackie Chan plays an enlightened warrior who is an immortal.
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Re: where is Maha Kasappa now?

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bodhifollower wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:54 pm It has been stated in the suttas that certain Maha Arahants had the magic power to extened their life until the end of the aeon, this has been shown to be possible for the Buddha, and Maha Moggalana, I've not seen other cases of Arahants who had this power. Although just because it is not mentioned does not mean they could not. A genius like Sariputta surely could extend his like like Rick from Rick and Morty. So there could be some immortal arahnats out there. Who knows, maybe this is where the myth of vampires came from or shows like doctor who and Rick and Morty. In the movie The Forbiddon Kingdom, Jackie Chan plays an enlightened warrior who is an immortal.
The arahant doesnt want to extend their life. Life is suffering, nibbana is happiness. For ordianry ppl, extending their life is good, but for the arahant, nibbana is much better because this body is full of suffering. Eating is suffering, living is suffering.. They always choose nibbana, there is no reason for them to live longer, there is no meaning in life for them.

It is like fame, ordinary ppl think fame is good. But for famous ppl, fame creates a lot of troubles. They must hide they identity in public, needs bodyguard everytime everywhere.... An ordinary person can be free whatever he like, the famous person is stricted very hard. That is how arahant views the physical life, it is a jail for them.
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Re: where is Maha Kasappa now?

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whynotme wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:34 am
bodhifollower wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:54 pm It has been stated in the suttas that certain Maha Arahants had the magic power to extened their life until the end of the aeon, this has been shown to be possible for the Buddha, and Maha Moggalana, I've not seen other cases of Arahants who had this power. Although just because it is not mentioned does not mean they could not. A genius like Sariputta surely could extend his like like Rick from Rick and Morty. So there could be some immortal arahnats out there. Who knows, maybe this is where the myth of vampires came from or shows like doctor who and Rick and Morty. In the movie The Forbiddon Kingdom, Jackie Chan plays an enlightened warrior who is an immortal.
The arahant doesnt want to extend their life. Life is suffering, nibbana is happiness. For ordianry ppl, extending their life is good, but for the arahant, nibbana is much better because this body is full of suffering. Eating is suffering, living is suffering.. They always choose nibbana, there is no reason for them to live longer, there is no meaning in life for them.

It is like fame, ordinary ppl think fame is good. But for famous ppl, fame creates a lot of troubles. They must hide they identity in public, needs bodyguard everytime everywhere.... An ordinary person can be free whatever he like, the famous person is stricted very hard. That is how arahant views the physical life, it is a jail for them.
they can extend for compassion....to teach later humans who are stuck with confused view
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whynotme
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Re: where is Maha Kasappa now?

Post by whynotme »

confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:38 am
whynotme wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:34 am
bodhifollower wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:54 pm It has been stated in the suttas that certain Maha Arahants had the magic power to extened their life until the end of the aeon, this has been shown to be possible for the Buddha, and Maha Moggalana, I've not seen other cases of Arahants who had this power. Although just because it is not mentioned does not mean they could not. A genius like Sariputta surely could extend his like like Rick from Rick and Morty. So there could be some immortal arahnats out there. Who knows, maybe this is where the myth of vampires came from or shows like doctor who and Rick and Morty. In the movie The Forbiddon Kingdom, Jackie Chan plays an enlightened warrior who is an immortal.
The arahant doesnt want to extend their life. Life is suffering, nibbana is happiness. For ordianry ppl, extending their life is good, but for the arahant, nibbana is much better because this body is full of suffering. Eating is suffering, living is suffering.. They always choose nibbana, there is no reason for them to live longer, there is no meaning in life for them.

It is like fame, ordinary ppl think fame is good. But for famous ppl, fame creates a lot of troubles. They must hide they identity in public, needs bodyguard everytime everywhere.... An ordinary person can be free whatever he like, the famous person is stricted very hard. That is how arahant views the physical life, it is a jail for them.
they can extend for compassion....to teach later humans who are stuck with confused view
Just your imagination.

The arahant often concentrates on freeing himself. Freeing others is the goal of bodhisattva.

The problem is the inclination before enlightenment, the bodhisattva is trained in helping others before his enlightenment, while the arahant is not. It is not that the arahant does not have compassion, but he does not have the strong inclination to help other, and does not trained in that goal, he does not know how to help.
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Re: where is Maha Kasappa now?

Post by confusedlayman »

whynotme wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:26 am
confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:38 am
whynotme wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:34 am
The arahant doesnt want to extend their life. Life is suffering, nibbana is happiness. For ordianry ppl, extending their life is good, but for the arahant, nibbana is much better because this body is full of suffering. Eating is suffering, living is suffering.. They always choose nibbana, there is no reason for them to live longer, there is no meaning in life for them.

It is like fame, ordinary ppl think fame is good. But for famous ppl, fame creates a lot of troubles. They must hide they identity in public, needs bodyguard everytime everywhere.... An ordinary person can be free whatever he like, the famous person is stricted very hard. That is how arahant views the physical life, it is a jail for them.
they can extend for compassion....to teach later humans who are stuck with confused view
Just your imagination.

The arahant often concentrates on freeing himself. Freeing others is the goal of bodhisattva.

The problem is the inclination before enlightenment, the bodhisattva is trained in helping others before his enlightenment, while the arahant is not. It is not that the arahant does not have compassion, but he does not have the strong inclination to help other, and does not trained in that goal, he does not know how to help.
then why sariputta and moggalana and other arhants had large students?
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Re: where is Maha Kasappa now?

Post by Coëmgenu »

confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:47 pm
whynotme wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:26 am
confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:38 am

they can extend for compassion....to teach later humans who are stuck with confused view
Just your imagination.

The arahant often concentrates on freeing himself. Freeing others is the goal of bodhisattva.

The problem is the inclination before enlightenment, the bodhisattva is trained in helping others before his enlightenment, while the arahant is not. It is not that the arahant does not have compassion, but he does not have the strong inclination to help other, and does not trained in that goal, he does not know how to help.
then why sariputta and moggalana and other arhants had large students?
Because they were fed too many carbohydrates.
If you see a river, pray that beings gain entrance into the stream and into the ocean of wisdom. If you see a reservoir, pray that beings swiftly taste the one taste of the Dharma. If you see a pond, pray that beings become great in locution and skillful in preaching. If you see a well, pray that beings draw deep from the well of reason to disclose all dharmas. If you see a spring, pray that beings have inexhaustible roots of virtue. If you see a bridge, pray that beings carry all across to safety, as via a bridge. If you see a waterfall, pray that all beings cleanse the stains of delusion.
whynotme
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Re: where is Maha Kasappa now?

Post by whynotme »

confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:47 pm
whynotme wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:26 am
confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:38 am

they can extend for compassion....to teach later humans who are stuck with confused view
Just your imagination.

The arahant often concentrates on freeing himself. Freeing others is the goal of bodhisattva.

The problem is the inclination before enlightenment, the bodhisattva is trained in helping others before his enlightenment, while the arahant is not. It is not that the arahant does not have compassion, but he does not have the strong inclination to help other, and does not trained in that goal, he does not know how to help.
then why sariputta and moggalana and other arhants had large students?
Sariputta and Moggallana are chief disciples of a Buddha, so its their duty. Each Buddha has 2 chief disciples like that to help him, and an assistance like Ananda. Its their predetermined duty. And they're not students of Sariputta or Moggallana, but students of the Buddha.

And even with chief disciples, they did not extend their lives, when their life coming to the end, they ended it all. Then how come normal disciples extend their lives?

Even arahants, after the Buddha's death, they think, just let the world be, we are not teaching anyone. That why Maha Kassapa had to assemble the first council to preserve the teaching of the Buddha, when he saw the thoughts of other.

The arahant's compassion is different from bodhisattva. A bodhisattva tries to save ppl while the arhat respects ppl's choice. If ppl want to remain in samsara, then arhats let they be. If ppl want to be greedy, hatred, then let they be. Its their freedom and arhats respect that freedom. Its their compassion to respect ppl's choice and dont intervene.

Its different bc their wishes are different from the beginning when they started their journey.
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Re: where is Maha Kasappa now?

Post by TRobinson465 »

I found this paper and thought it'd be relavent to this thread.

https://www.academia.edu/12430761/The_N ... card=title

Its about the end of Maha kassapa's life in the thai and lao buddhist traditions.
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Re: where is Maha Kasappa now?

Post by tamdrin »

whynotme wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:26 am
confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:38 am
whynotme wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:34 am
The arahant doesnt want to extend their life. Life is suffering, nibbana is happiness. For ordianry ppl, extending their life is good, but for the arahant, nibbana is much better because this body is full of suffering. Eating is suffering, living is suffering.. They always choose nibbana, there is no reason for them to live longer, there is no meaning in life for them.

It is like fame, ordinary ppl think fame is good. But for famous ppl, fame creates a lot of troubles. They must hide they identity in public, needs bodyguard everytime everywhere.... An ordinary person can be free whatever he like, the famous person is stricted very hard. That is how arahant views the physical life, it is a jail for them.
they can extend for compassion....to teach later humans who are stuck with confused view
Just your imagination.

The arahant often concentrates on freeing himself. Freeing others is the goal of bodhisattva.

The problem is the inclination before enlightenment, the bodhisattva is trained in helping others before his enlightenment, while the arahant is not. It is not that the arahant does not have compassion, but he does not have the strong inclination to help other, and does not trained in that goal, he does not know how to help.
This is why the Mahayana feels Arahants are inferior.
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