When contact ceases, sensual pleasures cease (Phassanirodho, bhikkhave, kāmanirodho)

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auto
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Re: When contact ceases, sensual pleasures cease (Phassanirodho, bhikkhave, kāmanirodho)

Post by auto » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:43 pm

phassa is translated by some as sense-impression.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nypo.html
"And this sense-impression, O monks, what is its source...? sense-impression has the six sense-bases as its source and origin...
https://suttacentral.net/sn12.11/en/sujato
And what is the source of contact? Phasso cāyaṃ, bhikkhave, kiṃnidāno kiṃsamudayo kiṃjātiko kiṃpabhavo? The six sense fields. Phasso saḷāyatananidāno saḷāyatanasamudayo saḷāyatanajātiko saḷāyatanapabhavo.
why it is translated as just 'contact' anyway?


http://dictionary.sutta.org/browse/p/phassa
phassaBuddhist Dictionary by NYANATILOKA MAHATHERA
phassa,(fr.phusati,to touch):'sense-impression',contact...

phassanirodha is that the sense impression won't arise anymore as it used to when being human.

Srilankaputra
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Re: When contact ceases, sensual pleasures cease (Phassanirodho, bhikkhave, kāmanirodho)

Post by Srilankaputra » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:37 am

auto wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:43 pm
why it is translated as just 'contact' anyway?
At Savatthī. “Bhikkhus, I will teach you the origin and the passing away of the world. Listen to that and attend closely, I will speak.”

“Yes, venerable sir,” the bhikkhus replied. The Blessed One said this:

“And what, bhikkhus, is the origin of the world? In dependence on the eye and forms, eye-consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as condition, feeling comes to be; with feeling as condition, craving; with craving as condition, clinging; with clinging as condition, existence; with existence as condition, birth; with birth as condition, aging-and-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair come to be. This, bhikkhus, is the origin of the world.

“In dependence on the ear and sounds … In dependence on the nose and odours … In dependence on the tongue and tastes … In dependence on the body and tactile objects … In dependence on the mind and mental phenomena, mind-consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as condition, feeling comes to be; with feeling as condition, craving; with craving as condition, clinging … existence … birth; with birth as condition, aging-and-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair come to be. This, bhikkhus, is the origin of the world.

“And what, bhikkhus, is the passing away of the world? In dependence on the eye and forms, eye-consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as condition, feeling comes to be; with feeling as condition, craving. But with the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving comes cessation of clinging; with the cessation of clinging, cessation of existence; with the cessation of existence, cessation of birth; with the cessation of birth, aging-and-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair cease. Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering. This, bhikkhus, is the passing away of the world.

“In dependence on the ear and sounds … … In dependence on the mind and mental phenomena, mind-consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as condition, feeling comes to be; with feeling as condition, craving. But with the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving comes cessation of clinging … cessation of existence … cessation of birth; with the cessation of birth, aging-and-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair cease. Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering. This, bhikkhus, is the passing away of the world.”
https://suttacentral.net/sn12.44/en/bodhi
O seeing one,we for refuge go to thee!
O mighty sage do thou our teacher be!

Paccuppannañca yo dhammaṃ,
Tattha tattha vipassati

“Yato yato mano nivāraye,
Na dukkhameti naṃ tato tato;
Sa sabbato mano nivāraye,
Sa sabbato dukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

auto
Posts: 1218
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: When contact ceases, sensual pleasures cease (Phassanirodho, bhikkhave, kāmanirodho)

Post by auto » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:54 am

Srilankaputra wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:37 am
auto wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:43 pm
why it is translated as just 'contact' anyway?
At Savatthī. “Bhikkhus, I will teach you the origin and the passing away of the world. Listen to that and attend closely, I will speak.”

“Yes, venerable sir,” the bhikkhus replied. The Blessed One said this:

“And what, bhikkhus, is the origin of the world? In dependence on the eye and forms, eye-consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as condition, feeling comes to be; with feeling as condition, craving; with craving as condition, clinging; with clinging as
,
Cakkhuñca paṭicca rūpe ca uppajjati cakkhuviññāṇaṃ. Tiṇṇaṃ saṅgati phasso.

http://dictionary.sutta.org/browse/s/saṅgati
saṅgatiPTS Pali-English dictionary The Pali Text Society's Pali-English dictionary
Saṅgati,(f.) [fr.saṅgacchati] 1.meeting,intercourse J.IV,98; V,78,483.In defn of yajati (=service?) at Dhtp 62 & Dhtm 79.-- 2.union,combination M.I,111; S.II,72; IV,32 sq.,68 sq.; Vbh.138 (=VbhA.188).‹-› 3.accidental occurrence D.I,53; DA.I,161.(Page 666)
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/ ... uences.htm
Yasmiṁ samaye,
At whatever time,

kāmāvacarassa kusalassa kammassa katattā upacitattā,
through having done and accumulated wholesome deeds in the sensual realm,

vipākaṁ cakkhuviññāṇaṁ uppannaṁ hoti,
a resultant eye-consciousness has arisen,

upekkhāsahagataṁ rūpārammaṇaṁ,
connected with equanimity, (having) a form object,

tasmiṁ samaye saṅkhārapaccayā viññāṇaṁ,
at that time with a (volitional) process as condition there is consciousness,

viññāṇapaccayā nāmaṁ,
with consciousness as condition: mind,

nāmapaccayā chaṭṭhāyatanaṁ,
with mind as condition: the sixth sense sphere,

chaṭṭhāyatanapaccayā phasso,
with the sixth sense sphere as condition: contact,
looks like its not physical contact. Eye-consciousness rises on dependence of many actions between eye and form. The light we see isn't feeling nor the tactile sensation from touch isn't feeling either.
The feeling what results from contact is heart based, it is mind not physical tactile sensation from touch. There are many dependent links before there is feeling.

contact is mental. And translating phassa as sense impression is ok i guess while thinking phassa is just contact might not point that out well enough.

Srilankaputra
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:56 am
Location: Sri Lanka

Re: When contact ceases, sensual pleasures cease (Phassanirodho, bhikkhave, kāmanirodho)

Post by Srilankaputra » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:02 pm

auto wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:54 am
thinking phassa is just contact might not point that out well enough.
Agree. We are not going to witness an disembodied eye , forms and eye-consciousness making contact. That would imply a fourth consciousness witnessing that. The following is a quote i found on the web.
The man never feels the want of what it never occurs to him to ask for
i think the author had a intuitive understanding of contact. If we take another example, the breath. How many in and out breaths do we have throughout the day, but we never felt the breath that didn't make contact.

In a positive sense(not as a negation)

we only ever see the sight that made contact, we only ever hear the sound that made contact … we only ever think the thought that made contact.
O seeing one,we for refuge go to thee!
O mighty sage do thou our teacher be!

Paccuppannañca yo dhammaṃ,
Tattha tattha vipassati

“Yato yato mano nivāraye,
Na dukkhameti naṃ tato tato;
Sa sabbato mano nivāraye,
Sa sabbato dukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

auto
Posts: 1218
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: When contact ceases, sensual pleasures cease (Phassanirodho, bhikkhave, kāmanirodho)

Post by auto » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:30 pm

Srilankaputra wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:02 pm
we only ever see the sight that made contact, we only ever hear the sound that made contact … we only ever think the thought that made contact.
the next link after contact is feeling. If you see a bird(rupa) it isn't contact, contact rises regards to that bird, maybe bird reminds you something and then some kind of feeling rises.
Contact happen in different region in brain and connects you to the reproduction organs, your focus is down there then and you won't able to get that focus away from those areas without going through some samyoyanas.

confusedlayman
Posts: 456
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am

Re: When contact ceases, sensual pleasures cease (Phassanirodho, bhikkhave, kāmanirodho)

Post by confusedlayman » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:01 pm

Birds vision
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

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