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what does "nibbindati dukke" mean in the famous verses of the Dhammapada?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:28 am
by Srilankaputra

Re: what does "nibbindati dukke" mean in the famous verses of the Dhammapada?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:10 am
by Garrib
Srilankaputra wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:28 am
Dhammapada Verses 277, 278 and 279
https://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/v ... ?verse=277
From PTS Pali-English dictionary:

nibbindati
to get wearied of (c. loc.); to have enough of, be satiated, turn away from, to be disgusted with. In two roots:

The site you linked has it translated as: "one becomes weary of dukkha"

Re: what does "nibbindati dukke" mean in the famous verses of the Dhammapada?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:23 am
by Srilankaputra
Garrib wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:10 am
From PTS Pali-English dictionary:

nibbindati
to get wearied of (c. loc.); to have enough of, be satiated, turn away from, to be disgusted with. In two roots:

Thanks Garrib,

But what does it mean, get wearied of dukkha?

Re: what does "nibbindati dukke" mean in the famous verses of the Dhammapada?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:45 am
by Dhammanando
Srilankaputra wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:23 am
But what does it mean, get wearied of dukkha?
Experiences nibbidā-ñāṇa, the insight knowledge of disgust/revulsion/disenchantment.
A man thought to catch a fish, it seems, so he took a fishing net and cast it in the water. He put his hand into the mouth of the net under the water and seized a snake by the neck. He was glad, thinking, “I have caught a fish.” In the belief that he had caught a big fish, he lifted it up to see. When he saw three marks, he perceived that it was a snake and he was terrified. He saw danger, felt revulsion for what he had seized, and desired to be delivered from it. Contriving a means to deliverance, he unwrapped [the coils from] his hand, starting from the tip of its tail. Then he raised his arm, and when he had weakened the snake by swinging it two or three times round his head, he flung it away, crying “Go, foul snake.” Then quickly scrambling up on to dry land, he stood looking back whence he had come, thinking, “Goodness, I have been delivered from the jaws of a huge snake!”

Herein, the time when the meditator was glad at the outset to have acquired a person is like the time when the man was glad to have seized the snake by the neck. This meditator’s seeing the three characteristics in formations after effecting resolution of the compact [into elements] is like the man’s seeing the three marks on pulling the snake’s head out of the mouth of the net. The meditator’s knowledge of appearance as terror is like the time when the man was frightened. Knowledge of contemplation of danger is like the man’s thereupon seeing the danger. Knowledge of contemplation of revulsion is like the man’s revulsion for what he had seized. Knowledge of desire for deliverance is like the man’s deliverance from the snake. The attribution of the three characteristics to formations by knowledge of contemplation of reflection is like the man’s contriving a means to deliverance. For just as the man weakened the snake by swinging it, keeping it away and rendering it incapable of biting, and was thus quite delivered, so too this meditator weakens formations by swinging them with the attribution of the three characteristics, rendering them incapable of appearing again in the modes of permanence, pleasure, beauty, and self, and is thus quite delivered. That is why it was said above that he discerns them in this way “in order to contrive the means to deliverance.”

(Path of Purification, ch. XXI)

Re: what does "nibbindati dukke" mean in the famous verses of the Dhammapada?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:05 am
by Srilankaputra
Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:45 am
This meditator’s seeing the three characteristics in formations after effecting resolution of the compact [into elements] is like the man’s seeing the three marks on pulling the snake’s head out of the mouth of the net.
Thank you so much Bhante!

So the snake stands for sankharas(dukkhe)?

Why does the third verse differ a little bit and say "Sabbe dhamma anatta" ti , but still ends with "nibbindati dukkhe" ?

Am i right in thinking, Dhammas here is refering to panchupadanakhandas?

Re: what does "nibbindati dukke" mean in the famous verses of the Dhammapada?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:12 pm
by Srilankaputra
Srilankaputra wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:05 am
Why does the third verse differ a little bit and say "Sabbe dhamma anatta" ti , but still ends with "nibbindati dukkhe" ?
Hi every one,

I had some thoughts on this, your feed back is highly appreciated.
Sabbe saṅkhārā aniccā”ti,
yadā paññāya passati;
Atha nibbindati dukkhe,
esa maggo visuddhiyā.

“Sabbe saṅkhārā dukkhā”ti,
yadā paññāya passati;
Atha nibbindati dukkhe,
esa maggo visuddhiyā.

“Sabbe dhammā anattā”ti,
yadā paññāya passati;
Atha nibbindati dukkhe,
esa maggo visuddhiyā.
Dhamma in the third verse seem to refer to phenomena that is clung to as 'me' or 'mine'. In all three cases the 'Atha nibbindati dukkhe' stays the same. Becease thats where craving turns away from. Craving turn away from where ever it previously delighted in. And where does craving delight in when it occurs? see below from DN22.
"And where does this craving, when arising, arise? And where, when dwelling, does it dwell? Whatever seems endearing and agreeable in terms of the world: that is where this craving, when arising, arises. That is where, when dwelling, it dwells.

"And what seems endearing and agreeable in terms of the world? The eye seems endearing and agreeable in terms of the world. That is where this craving, when arising, arises. That is where, when dwelling, it dwells.

"The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The intellect...

"Forms... Sounds... Smells... Tastes... Tactile sensations... Ideas...

"Eye-consciousness... Ear-consciousness... Nose-consciousness... Tongue-consciousness... Body-consciousness... Intellect-consciousness...

"Eye-contact... Ear-contact... Nose-contact... Tongue-contact... Body-contact... Intellect-contact...

"Feeling born of eye-contact... Feeling born of ear-contact... Feeling born of nose-contact... Feeling born of tongue-contact... Feeling born of body-contact... Feeling born of intellect-contact...

"Perception of forms... Perception of sounds... Perception of smells... Perception of tastes... Perception of tactile sensations... Perception of ideas...

"Intention for forms... Intention for sounds... Intention for smells... Intention for tastes... Intention for tactile sensations... Intention for ideas...

"Craving for forms... Craving for sounds... Craving for smells... Craving for tastes... Craving for tactile sensations... Craving for ideas...

"Thought directed at forms... Thought directed at sounds... Thought directed at smells... Thought directed at tastes... Thought directed at tactile sensations... Thought directed at ideas...

"Evaluation of forms... Evaluation of sounds... Evaluation of smells... Evaluation of tastes... Evaluation of tactile sensations... Evaluation of ideas seems endearing and agreeable in terms of the world. That is where this craving, when arising, arises. That is where, when dwelling, it dwells.
Sankhara seems to be, whatever is listed above.

Re: what does "nibbindati dukke" mean in the famous verses of the Dhammapada?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:44 pm
by santa100
Srilankaputra wrote:Why does the third verse differ a little bit and say "Sabbe dhamma anatta" ti , but still ends with "nibbindati dukkhe" ?
From Ven. Nyanatiloka's dictionary:
sankhara wrote:It occurs further in the sense of anything formed (sankhata) and conditioned, and includes all things whatever in the world, all phenomena of existence. This meaning applies, e.g. to the well-known passage, "All formations are impermanent... subject to suffering" (sabbe sankhāra aniccā ... dukkhā). In that context, however, s. is subordinate to the still wider and all-embracing term dhamma (thing); for dhamma includes also the Unformed or Unconditioned Element (asankhata-dhātu), i.e. Nibbāna (e.g. in sabbe dhammā anattā, "all things are without a self")
Nothing wrong with the nibbindati dukkhe part. Insight contemplation whether on Anicca, or Dukkha, or Anatta, they all lead to atha nibbindati dukkhe/one grows disenchanted with Dukkha.

Re: what does "nibbindati dukke" mean in the famous verses of the Dhammapada?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:35 pm
by paul
Suffering is the first noble truth, so it is the focus. The reason why suffering was chosen out of the three marks of existence is because it's universally known.

Re: what does "nibbindati dukke" mean in the famous verses of the Dhammapada?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:02 pm
by Srilankaputra
santa100 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:44 pm

From Ven. Nyanatiloka's dictionary:
sankhara wrote:It occurs further in the sense of anything formed (sankhata) and conditioned, and includes all things whatever in the world, all phenomena of existence. This meaning applies, e.g. to the well-known passage, "All formations are impermanent... subject to suffering" (sabbe sankhāra aniccā ... dukkhā). In that context, however, s. is subordinate to the still wider and all-embracing term dhamma (thing); for dhamma includes also the Unformed or Unconditioned Element (asankhata-dhātu), i.e. Nibbāna (e.g. in sabbe dhammā anattā, "all things are without a self")
Thanks santa!

That is interesting, but how can an un-enlightened man know about nibbana to know whether it is dhamma or not. Does he not realise nibbana after he realises that all dhammas are anatta?

Re: what does "nibbindati dukke" mean in the famous verses of the Dhammapada?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:03 pm
by Srilankaputra
paul wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:35 pm
Suffering is the first noble truth, so it is the focus. The reason why suffering was chosen out of the three marks of existence is because it's universally known.

Thanks Paul!

Re: what does "nibbindati dukke" mean in the famous verses of the Dhammapada?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:41 pm
by santa100
Srilankaputra wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:02 pm
Thanks santa!

That is interesting, but how can an un-enlightened man no about nibbana to know whether it is dhamma or not. Does he not realise nibbana after he realises that all dhammas are anatta?
Of course not. But then as the Buddha said, the truth of His Teaching is still being upheld as a provisional one as long as the practitioner has not attained enlightenment (MN 27, MN 28).