‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’

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DarrenM
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‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’

Post by DarrenM » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:35 pm

“Therefore, bhikkhus, any kind of form whatsoever, whether past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near, all form should be seen as it really is with correct wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’
“Any kind of feeling whatsoever … Any kind of perception whatsoever … Any kind of volitional formations whatsoever … Any kind of consciousness whatsoever, whether past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near, all consciousness should be seen as it really is with correct wisdom thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’

When the Buddha is referring to Not-Self he refers to whatever the teaching is targeting, such as the 5 Aggregates in SN 22.59 as above.

My question is a simple one. When he refers to the ‘I’ and ‘my self’ here, is he referring to the ordinary sense of self we have, or whatever else people like to call it, conventional self, etc?

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cappuccino
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Re: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’

Post by cappuccino » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:39 pm

he refers to I am

or I am That, even

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DooDoot
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Re: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’

Post by DooDoot » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:03 pm

DarrenM wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:35 pm
When he refers to the ‘I’ and ‘my self’ here, is he referring to the ordinary sense of self we have?
Yes. SN 22.59 is highlighting life is comprised of five aggregates and, importantly, how these five aggregates must be comprehended. Thus the practise is two-fold: (i) clearly comprehending the aggregates as 'aggregates'; (ii) so the view of 'self' is abandoned in relation to the five aggregates.

Dinsdale
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Re: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’

Post by Dinsdale » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:21 am

DarrenM wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:35 pm
My question is a simple one. When he refers to the ‘I’ and ‘my self’ here, is he referring to the ordinary sense of self we have, or whatever else people like to call it, conventional self, etc?
I don't think it's clear from the suttas what exactly anatta is negating.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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seeker242
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Re: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’

Post by seeker242 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:23 pm

If it was just "conventional self" then that would not include "ultimate self" and it would be ok to make notion of an ultimate self, AKA Brahman, etc. However, that's not considered ok either. He's referring to any notion of "myself", whether it's a personal self, absolute self, conventional self, universal self, etc, etc.

Dinsdale
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Re: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’

Post by Dinsdale » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:35 am

seeker242 wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:23 pm
He's referring to any notion of "myself", whether it's a personal self, absolute self, conventional self, universal self, etc, etc.
Though "I have no self" is also a view about self.

I suspect this is less to do with a view or position ( see DN1 ), and more to do with a practice, that of non-identification:

"'The way of practice leading to the cessation of self-identification, the way of practice leading to the cessation of self-identification,' it is said, lady. Which way of practice leading to the cessation of self-identification is described by the Blessed One?"
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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seeker242
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Re: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’

Post by seeker242 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:40 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:35 am
seeker242 wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:23 pm
He's referring to any notion of "myself", whether it's a personal self, absolute self, conventional self, universal self, etc, etc.
Though "I have no self" is also a view about self.
Sure I think you could say that. In MN 2 The Buddha declares that to be an "idea unfit for attention" and a "thicket of views". However, not entertaining notions of "myself" does not necessitate the view of "I have no self". When the whole notion of self is irrelevant, there no need to entertain either view.

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cappuccino
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Re: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’

Post by cappuccino » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:51 pm

Buddha taught selflessness.

All others teach a higher self.

Purity is relative.

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