Connection between Avijja and Tanha

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arunam
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Connection between Avijja and Tanha

Post by arunam » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:10 pm

From dependent origination we can say craving is due to avijja. Can it also be argued that we are unable to penetrate avijja due to craving?

Is it essential that we do such practices as Paṭikkūlamanasikāra (reflections on repulsiveness)?
A path is made by walking on it

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Sam Vara
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Re: Connection between Avijja and Tanha

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:53 pm

Richard Gombrich has argued precisely this in What the Buddha Thought. Claiming that the Upanishads basically favoured a gnostic, intellectual approach in which ignorance was the besetting problem of human existence, and that the Jains focused upon our emotional involvement with the world, he argues
The Buddha...found the perfect combination of the two approaches. You cannot see straight because you are blinded by passion, and you allow your emotions to control you because you do not see things as they are. If one wanted to argue against this, it is not easy to see how one would begin..."
(WTBT, p. 74)

I'm not sure exactly how this would relate to practices dealing with repulsiveness. The member with the best angle on this is, I think, Paul, so I hope he gets to read this and comment.

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DooDoot
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Re: Connection between Avijja and Tanha

Post by DooDoot » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:38 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:53 pm
Richard Gombrich... argues... You cannot see straight because you are blinded by passion...
The suttas mention three asava (including ignorance - MN 9) & five hindrances (AN 10.61) that feed/sustain ignorance. Its not only passion. The absence of passion does not necessarily mean ignorance ends.
arunam wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:10 pm
From dependent origination we can say craving is due to avijja. Can it also be argued that we are unable to penetrate avijja due to craving?
AN 10.61 says there are five hindrances that feed/sustain ignorance.
I say, bhikkhus, that ignorance has a nutriment; it is not without nutriment. And what is the nutriment for ignorance? It should be said: the five hindrances.

https://suttacentral.net/an10.61/en/bodhi
These hindrances are not the 8th link called "craving". They are more subtle:
From the origination of ignorance comes the origination of fermentation... From the origination of fermentation comes the origination of ignorance.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

arunam
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:21 am

Re: Connection between Avijja and Tanha

Post by arunam » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:31 am

I think i found the answer [Nettippakarana p.15]
============================
Herein, there are four ways and four [types of] persons. One of

craving-temperament who is dull finds the outlet, by way of the
foundations of mindfulness as support and with the mindfulness
faculty, on the way that is painful with sluggish acquaintanceship.

One of craving-temperament who is intelligent finds the outlet, by
way of the [four] meditations as support and with the concentrationfaculty,
on the way that is painful with swift acquaintanceship

One of view-temperament who is dull finds the outlet, by way of the right endeavours as support and with the energy faculty, on the way that is pleasant with sluggish acquaintanceship. One of view- temperament who is intelligent finds the outlet, by way of the truths as support and with the understanding faculty, on the way that is pleasant with swift acquaintanceship.

Both kinds of craving-temperament find the outlet, by way of insight heralded by quiet, to the heart-deliverance(ceto-vimutti) due to the fading
of lust.


Both kinds of view-temperament find the outlet, by way of quiet heralded by insight, to the understanding-deliverance(panna -vimutti) due to the fading of ignorance.
================================

It seems complete eradication of craving leads to eradication of ignorance.
And complete eradication of ignorance leads to eradication of craving.
A path is made by walking on it

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