Transfer/Sharing merit limits

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
sentinel
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Re: Transfer/Sharing merit limits

Post by sentinel »

Dhammanando wrote: Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:41 pm
James Tan wrote: Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:32 pm What do you mean by " factors " for both cases ?
I mean the factors needed for a paritta recital to be effective, as given in the commentaries and summarized by Mingun Sayadaw in my link.
James Tan wrote: Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:32 pm Do you think the commentary could be inaccurate in many instances ?
As far as the subject of parittas is concerned, the Milindapañha and commentaries are our only source of information. As the Buddha rejected haphazardism (ahetukavāda) there must be some kind of causal factors that make parittas work. Those stated in the commentaries seem very plausible to me.
From your link of Mingun Sayadaw .

(a) Four accomplishments of a reciter
.
(1) The reciter must be capable of reciting passages, phrases, syllables of the Pali text
with correct mode of articulation, enunciation, and accent.

(2) He must have full and exact understanding of the PÈli text he is reciting.
(3) The reciter should chant paritta without expectation of gifts or presents.
(4) Paritta should be recited with a pure heart full of loving-kindness and compassion.

And (b) of listener
where one need to be very attentive .



I think to fulfill the criteria or factor of
(a) 1 is not possible for many many buddhist . Pali words seems so distant for many people .


(b) the person need to focus their mind on the paritta chanting in order to be effective , but ,
when a person is dying or an animal near death ,
How is it possible to achieve such task ?


I suppose the benefits of chanting paritta is there but obviously Not Necessarily need to fulfill completely in accordance to such terms and conditions to be effective .



Thanks .
You always gain by giving
TRobinson465
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Re: Transfer/Sharing merit limits

Post by TRobinson465 »

Follow up question. So the suttas seem to indicate that sharing merit only works with certain types of ghosts. Why, then do the Uddissanaadhitthaana Gaathaa and the Devataadipattidaana Gaathaa (often chanting at the end of morning and evening chanting in some temples), share merit with beings who are cannot receive them? Is it just for personal practice?


http://www.dharmathai.com/morning-praye ... chanting/
http://www.dharmathai.com/evening-praye ... -chanting/
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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Dhammanando
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Re: Transfer/Sharing merit limits

Post by Dhammanando »

TRobinson465 wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:42 am Why, then do the Uddissanaadhitthaana Gaathaa and the Devataadipattidaana Gaathaa (often chanting at the end of morning and evening chanting in some temples), share merit with beings who are cannot receive them? Is it just for personal practice?
It's an example of a tendency found in folk Buddhism everywhere, namely, that if the official Theravada doctrine seems comfortless or unpalatable, then it's likely that in in popular belief and practice it will be replaced by something more consolatory.
Rūpehi bhikkhave arūpā santatarā.
Arūpehi nirodho santataro ti.


“Bhikkhus, the formless is more peaceful than the form realms.
Cessation is more peaceful than the formless realms.”
(Santatarasutta, Iti 73)
TRobinson465
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Re: Transfer/Sharing merit limits

Post by TRobinson465 »

Dhammanando wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:01 am
TRobinson465 wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:42 am Why, then do the Uddissanaadhitthaana Gaathaa and the Devataadipattidaana Gaathaa (often chanting at the end of morning and evening chanting in some temples), share merit with beings who are cannot receive them? Is it just for personal practice?
It's an example of a tendency found in folk Buddhism everywhere, namely, that if the official Theravada doctrine seems comfortless or unpalatable, then it's likely that in in popular belief and practice it will be replaced by something more consolatory.
Oh ok. so those chants aren't like real suttas?
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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Dhammanando
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Re: Transfer/Sharing merit limits

Post by Dhammanando »

TRobinson465 wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:29 pm Oh ok. so those chants aren't like real suttas?
The morning one was composed by King Rama IV. The evening one is probably rather older since we find it used in all Theravāda countries, but it doesn't come from any canonical source.
Rūpehi bhikkhave arūpā santatarā.
Arūpehi nirodho santataro ti.


“Bhikkhus, the formless is more peaceful than the form realms.
Cessation is more peaceful than the formless realms.”
(Santatarasutta, Iti 73)
TRobinson465
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Re: Transfer/Sharing merit limits

Post by TRobinson465 »

Makes sense
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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