Transfer/Sharing merit limits

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.

Moderator: Mahavihara moderator

James Tan
Posts: 1037
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: Transfer/Sharing merit limits

Post by James Tan » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:51 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:41 pm
James Tan wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:32 pm
What do you mean by " factors " for both cases ?
I mean the factors needed for a paritta recital to be effective, as given in the commentaries and summarized by Mingun Sayadaw in my link.
James Tan wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:32 pm
Do you think the commentary could be inaccurate in many instances ?
As far as the subject of parittas is concerned, the Milindapañha and commentaries are our only source of information. As the Buddha rejected haphazardism (ahetukavāda) there must be some kind of causal factors that make parittas work. Those stated in the commentaries seem very plausible to me.
From your link of Mingun Sayadaw .

(a) Four accomplishments of a reciter
.
(1) The reciter must be capable of reciting passages, phrases, syllables of the Pali text
with correct mode of articulation, enunciation, and accent.

(2) He must have full and exact understanding of the PÈli text he is reciting.
(3) The reciter should chant paritta without expectation of gifts or presents.
(4) Paritta should be recited with a pure heart full of loving-kindness and compassion.

And (b) of listener
where one need to be very attentive .



I think to fulfill the criteria or factor of
(a) 1 is not possible for many many buddhist . Pali words seems so distant for many people .


(b) the person need to focus their mind on the paritta chanting in order to be effective , but ,
when a person is dying or an animal near death ,
How is it possible to achieve such task ?


I suppose the benefits of chanting paritta is there but obviously Not Necessarily need to fulfill completely in accordance to such terms and conditions to be effective .



Thanks .
:reading:

TRobinson465
Posts: 520
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: United States

Re: Transfer/Sharing merit limits

Post by TRobinson465 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:42 am

Follow up question. So the suttas seem to indicate that sharing merit only works with certain types of ghosts. Why, then do the Uddissanaadhitthaana Gaathaa and the Devataadipattidaana Gaathaa (often chanting at the end of morning and evening chanting in some temples), share merit with beings who are cannot receive them? Is it just for personal practice?


http://www.dharmathai.com/morning-praye ... chanting/
http://www.dharmathai.com/evening-praye ... -chanting/
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 4227
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Ban Sri Pradu Rubber Forest, Phrao, Chiangmai

Re: Transfer/Sharing merit limits

Post by Dhammanando » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:01 am

TRobinson465 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:42 am
Why, then do the Uddissanaadhitthaana Gaathaa and the Devataadipattidaana Gaathaa (often chanting at the end of morning and evening chanting in some temples), share merit with beings who are cannot receive them? Is it just for personal practice?
It's an example of a tendency found in folk Buddhism everywhere, namely, that if the official Theravada doctrine seems comfortless or unpalatable, then it's likely that in in popular belief and practice it will be replaced by something more consolatory.

TRobinson465
Posts: 520
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: United States

Re: Transfer/Sharing merit limits

Post by TRobinson465 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:29 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:01 am
TRobinson465 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:42 am
Why, then do the Uddissanaadhitthaana Gaathaa and the Devataadipattidaana Gaathaa (often chanting at the end of morning and evening chanting in some temples), share merit with beings who are cannot receive them? Is it just for personal practice?
It's an example of a tendency found in folk Buddhism everywhere, namely, that if the official Theravada doctrine seems comfortless or unpalatable, then it's likely that in in popular belief and practice it will be replaced by something more consolatory.
Oh ok. so those chants aren't like real suttas?
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 4227
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Ban Sri Pradu Rubber Forest, Phrao, Chiangmai

Re: Transfer/Sharing merit limits

Post by Dhammanando » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:33 pm

TRobinson465 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:29 pm
Oh ok. so those chants aren't like real suttas?
The morning one was composed by King Rama IV. The evening one is probably rather older since we find it used in all Theravāda countries, but it doesn't come from any canonical source.

TRobinson465
Posts: 520
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: United States

Re: Transfer/Sharing merit limits

Post by TRobinson465 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:44 pm

Makes sense
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 10 guests