Comprehensive Website for Commentaries?

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sgns
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Comprehensive Website for Commentaries?

Post by sgns » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:37 pm

Are there are any websites that offer comprehensive lists of commentaries and subcommentaries alongside the suttas? For instance, Sutta Central but with the option to view commentaries.

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bodom
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Re: Comprehensive Website for Commentaries?

Post by bodom » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:14 pm

sgns wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:37 pm
Are there are any websites that offer comprehensive lists of commentaries and subcommentaries alongside the suttas? For instance, Sutta Central but with the option to view commentaries.
I'm sure someone here has a site for you but I do know a large majority of the commentaries have never been translated into English from there original pali. It would be nice to have such a site available.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

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mikenz66
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Re: Comprehensive Website for Commentaries?

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:30 pm

bodom wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:14 pm
sgns wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:37 pm
Are there are any websites that offer comprehensive lists of commentaries and subcommentaries alongside the suttas? For instance, Sutta Central but with the option to view commentaries.
I'm sure someone here has a site for you but I do know a large majority of the commentaries have never been translated into English from there original pali. It would be nice to have such a site available.

:namaste:
As Bodom says, most has not been translated. There are a few examples of particular suttas that you can find on-line, such as the Satpatthana Sutta:
https://accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/soma/wayof.html

And, of course, the Visuddhimagga summarises a lot of commentary.

Bhikkhu Bodhi's Nikaya translations have quite a lot of detail in the footnotes about points where the Commentaries make significant comments (much of the Commentaries tend to be rather pedestrian analysis of the language), Nanamoli's hand-witten notes about the MN (which Bhikkhu Bodhi based the Nanamoli-Bodhi translation on) have significantly more detail.
https://pathpress.wordpress.com/2013/09 ... ma-nikaya/
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/ve ... ikaya/3854

:heart:
Mike

theY
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Re: Comprehensive Website for Commentaries?

Post by theY » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:54 pm

Entire commentary were translated in thai:
http://84000.org/tipitaka/attha/attha.php?b=14&i=617

For translation in english language, you can ask to me in each case you want. It may be take a time to translate, but I will try to do as fast as I can.

Don't worry about the disturbing, commentary translation is on my plan to do. I just waiting for prepare the server system and my english skill to start the translation. So, your asking for some commentary translation will not disturb me, but it will help me to practice myself in commentary translated skill.
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... monks.html

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Dmytro
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Re: Comprehensive Website for Commentaries?

Post by Dmytro » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:18 pm

BODHI, BHIKKHU The discourse on the all-embracing net of views: the Brahmajāla Sutta and its commentaries. Kandy, Sri Lanka: Buddhist Publication Society, 1992

BODHI, BHIKKHU: The Great Discourse on Causation: The Mahānidāna Sutta and Its Commentaries: Buddhist Publication Society, 1995 — ISBN 9789552401176

BODHI, BHIKKHU: The Discourse on the Root of Existence - Mūlapariyāya-Sutta. Kandy: Buddhist Publication Society, 2006

BODHI, BHIKKHU: The Sāmaññaphala Sutta The Discourse on the Fruits of Recluseship. Kandy: BPS, 2013

NYANAMOLI, BHIKKHU: The Discourse on Right View: The Sammādiṭṭhi Sutta and its Commentary, Wheel. Bd. 377-379. Kandy: Buddhist Publication, Society, 1991

NYANAMOLI, BHIKKHU: Raṭṭhapāla Sutta: A Discourse from the Majjhima Nikaya No. 82, Wheel. Bd. 110. Kandy: Buddhist Publication, Society, 1967

NYANAMOLI, THERA: Greater Discourse on Voidness: Mahasuññata Sutta with Commentary (MN 122), Wheel. Bd. 87. Kandy: Buddhist Publication, Society, 1965

NYANAMOLI, THERA: Mindfulness of Breathing (Ānāpānasati). Buddhist Texts from the Pāli Canon and Extracts from the Pāli Commentaries: Kandy, Sri Lanka: Buddhist Publication Society, 1952

SOMA, THERA: The way of mindfulness. A translation of the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta of the Majjhima Nikāya; its Commentary, the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta Vaṇṇanā of the Papañcasūdanī of Buddhaghosa Thera; and excerpts from the Līnatthapakāsanī Tīkā, Marginal Notes, of Dhammapala Thera on the Commentary. Kandy: Buddhist Publication Society, 1981

STORY, FRANCIS; VAJIRĀ, SISTER: Last Days of the Buddha The Mahaparinibbana Sutta, Wheel. Kandy: BPS, 2010

sgns
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Re: Comprehensive Website for Commentaries?

Post by sgns » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:52 am

Thank you for the replies -- some interesting things to look over here! I wonder, are there suttacentral like websites in non-English languages, which show suttas and commentaries side-by-side? Perhaps collating these together, alongside what exists of English translations, could serve to inspire more English translations..
theY wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:54 pm
Entire commentary were translated in thai:
http://84000.org/tipitaka/attha/attha.php?b=14&i=617

For translation in english language, you can ask to me in each case you want. It may be take a time to translate, but I will try to do as fast as I can.

Don't worry about the disturbing, commentary translation is on my plan to do. I just waiting for prepare the server system and my english skill to start the translation. So, your asking for some commentary translation will not disturb me, but it will help me to practice myself in commentary translated skill.
theY, this is a very kind offer -- and a great undertaking!
I must admit I don't know the organizational system of the commentaries well, so I'm not sure what exactly to ask for -- but at the moment I am interested in commentaries related to Vesali Sutta, SN 54.9; Ukkacita Sutta, AN 2.46; and Ani Sutta: The Peg, SN 20.7. Any translations related to this would be much appreciated!

theY
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Re: Comprehensive Website for Commentaries?

Post by theY » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:35 pm

sgns wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:52 am
Thank you for the replies -- some interesting things to look over here! I wonder, are there suttacentral like websites in non-English languages, which show suttas and commentaries side-by-side? Perhaps collating these together, alongside what exists of English translations, could serve to inspire more English translations..
84000.org has tipitaka in thai/roman characters and translated in thai/english as well. Also, commentary in thai/roman characters, too. However, there are just translated just in thai language, no in english for commentary.

84000.org has just a link for each commentary of each sutta at the end of each sutta's page. For me it is good enough for me, be cause I can use the function of computer's operating system to put the window side-by-side.

The really stuff which I don't have that make the translation project begin so late, is the programming knowledge to write the system for the translation project.
sgns wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:52 am
theY, this is a very kind offer -- and a great undertaking!
I must admit I don't know the organizational system of the commentaries well, so I'm not sure what exactly to ask for -- but at the moment I am interested in commentaries related to Vesali Sutta, SN 54.9; Ukkacita Sutta, AN 2.46; and Ani Sutta: The Peg, SN 20.7. Any translations related to this would be much appreciated!
I may use a month to translate them. If you have the question about those suttas, you can ask me here, it will faster than the translation. I will make the answer follow the commentary.

Many problem maybe started from the english translation's error. This case is not described by commentary. So, the focus asking is recommended by me, because I can check the error type for you.

For the translation, please wait for a month.
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... monks.html

sgns
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Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:15 pm

Re: Comprehensive Website for Commentaries?

Post by sgns » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:09 pm

theY wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:35 pm
The really stuff which I don't have that make the translation project begin so late, is the programming knowledge to write the system for the translation project.
I'm afraid I don't have the necessary skills either -- although I can do Wordpress development for sites, which could work for a basic way to display the translations. Would that help? In the meantime, I will keep asking around to gauge other's interest.

There is no rush on those commentary translations. I look forward to reading whenever the time is right.

sgns
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Re: Comprehensive Website for Commentaries?

Post by sgns » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:32 am

I am tentatively working on gathering these.. I started a similar thread at Sutta Central: https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/co ... ine/8309/6 Scroll down to see the working list there, if interested.

theY
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Re: Comprehensive Website for Commentaries?

Post by theY » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:54 pm

Thank you. However, I have to say that I have to translate it by myself, because by my experience of thai version commentary, It is not readable. The translators of that version didn't have good enough knowledge about tipitaka and commentary. Also, they didn't have knowledge about these canons: netti-pakaraṇa, paṭisambhidāmagga, visuddhimagga, abhidhamma, parivāra, and kaṅkhāvitaraṇī. So, their translation version have many problem. I often received an email to re-translate the old translated tipitaka and the old translated commentary.

Another, the tipitaka and commentary translators in ancient teravāda tradition must be the tipitaka-memorizer, too. I am not, but I trying, and I have the connection with tipitaka-memorizer, too. I also, have the required knowledge. Therefore, I must try it myself, although I want to translate with the other for speeding.

It looks like I am so arrogant, but for the right translation those knowledge are very required.
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... monks.html

sgns
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:15 pm

Re: Comprehensive Website for Commentaries?

Post by sgns » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:01 pm

@theY,
It is good to have multiple translations! I can't read Thai, so I can't comment on the quality of the existing translation, but my generation sense is this is how translations advance -- various versions together over time contribute a greater understanding of the original. How far along are you in your translations? do you share them online currently, or will you in the future?

theY
Posts: 354
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:07 pm
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Re: Comprehensive Website for Commentaries?

Post by theY » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:56 pm

I need to retranslate tipitaka for easier to read and easier to relate with commentary.
Substitute of āṇisutta (6th sutta of purisavagga; AN 2.47)

48. Bhikkhus, there are two factions. What two? The obstinate faction, who never ask to understand clearly,  and the asking to understand clearly faction, who are not obstinate.


Bhikkhus, what is the obstinate faction, who never ask to understand clearly? Bhikkhus, when the suttantas, which is buddha's teaching, contained by profound word, profound meaning,  lokuttara, and emptiness-collection, are teaching,  herein fraction's bhikkhus  do not listen, not pay attention,  and thinking out of what listening. Also, they do not prioritize it to memorize and to learn. But when the suttantas, which is composed or authored by the poem-composer, in melodic syllables and words, out of buddha's teaching, teaching by that composer's disciple, herein fraction's bhikkhus listen, pay attention, thinking of what listening. Also, they prioritize it to memorize and to learn. After they learned it, they do not ask and answer with each other,  not go to ask, not seek the hidden detail of that suttanta "How to recite it? What is it's relation?", not clarify the unclear point of that suttanta, and not solve the doubt about the various question about that teaching.  Bhikkhus, this is the obstinate faction, who never ask to understand clearly.


Bhikkhus, what is the asking to understand clearly faction, who are not obstinate? Bhikkhus, when the suttantas, which is composed or authored by the poem-composer, in melodic syllables and letter, out of buddha's teaching, teaching by that composer's disciple, herein fraction's bhikkhus do not listen, not pay attention,  not thinking of what listening. Also, they do not prioritize it to memorize and to learn. But when the suttantas, which is buddha's teaching, contained by profound word, profound meaning,  lokuttara, and emptiness-collection, are teaching,  herein fraction's bhikkhus listen, pay attention,  and thinking of what listening. Also, they prioritize it to memorize and to learn. After they learned it, they ask and answer with each other,  go to ask, seek the hidden detail of that suttanta "How to recite it? What is it's relation?", clarify the unclear point of that suttanta,  and solve the doubt about the various question about that teaching.  Bhikkhus, this is the asking to understand clearly faction, who are not obstinate.


Bhikkhus, those are  two factions. Bhikkhus, the best faction, of those two factions, is the asking to understand clearly faction, who are not obstinate.


Cr. http://84000.org/tipitaka/read/roman_re ... =20&A=1820
Atthakathā: http://unmixedtheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... a-6th.html


Read first: Have to know before to read atthakathā:
Screenshot_2018-02-28_20-01-58.png
Screenshot_2018-02-28_20-01-58.png (207.29 KiB) Viewed 363 times
Atthakatha:
Substitute of āṇisutta-atthakathā (6th sutta of purisavagga's atthakathā; AN 2.47)

Translation of this sutta: https://unmixedtheravada.blogspot.com/2 ... ta-of.html

(Dark side:)
okkācitavinītā (obstinate) means who are stubborn.
no paṭipucchāvinītā (never ask to understand clearlymeans who don't ask enough to understand clearly.
gambhīrā (profound wordmeans which is hard to understand of the pāli , such as MN cūḷavedallasutta, etc.
gambhīratthā (profound meaningmeans which is hard to understand of the pāli's meaning, such as MN mahāvedallasutta, etc.
(tīkā: attha means meaning-to-meaning=causes-to-effects relation (sabhāva), the paragraph-to-paragraph relation (anusandhi), words' relation, and the pre-word-to-next-word relation. Tīkā described attha word follow to paṭisambhidāmagga. [learn pali-grammar, pali-naya, and netti-pakaraṇa for more information].)
lokuttarā means which refer to lokuttara (4 ariyamaggas 4 ariyaphalas 1 nibbāna).
suññatapaṭisaṃyuttā (emptiness-collectionmeans which is complex of no satta only dhamma, such as SN Asṅkhatasaṃyutta,( or in Abhi. Saṅ. Suññatavāra,) etc.
na aññācittaṃ upaṭṭhapenti (thinking out of what listeningmeans bhikkhus not pay attention of mind to listen, so he sleepy or thinking out of what listening.
uggahetabbaṃ pariyāpuṇitabbaṃ (to memorize and to learnmeans uggahetabbe pariyāpuṇitabbe (=grammatical description).
kavikatā (composed by the poem-composer) means which composed by a composer. The other (authored by the poem-composer) word are just the synonyms of it.
cittakkharā (melodic syllables) come from cittara+akkharā (=vocabulary description, [citta=cittara]!=viññāṇa). The other word (melodic word) are just the synonyms of it.
bāhirakā (out of buddha's teachingmeans which is out of buddha's teaching.
sāvakabhāsitā (teaching by that composer's disciplemeans which is taught by that composer's disciple.
(Atthakathā explained sāvakabhāsitā like that because it is "kavikatā ... bāhirakā sāvakabhāsitā" in sutta's pāli. Also, bāhirakā means out of buddha's teaching, pariyatti/patipatti/pativeda, so every teaching, which still teaching perfectly about those 3 teaching of buddha, is not out of buddha's teaching, such as parivāra of upāli, paṭisambhidāmagga/abhidhamma of sāriputta, etc.)
sussūsanti (listenmeans bhikkhus listen that teaching because they like the melodic syllables and melodic words.
na ceva aññamaññaṃ paṭipucchanti (do not ask and answer with each othermeans bhikkhus don't ask (the tipitaka-memorizer) about the meaning-to-meaning relation, the paragraph-to-paragraph relation, and the pre-word-to-next-word relation.
na paṭivicaranti (not go to askmeans bhikkhus don't go to ask.
idaṃ kathaṃ (How to recite it?) means how should I recite this syllable? and what does pronounce this syllable?
imassa kvattho (What is it's relation?means what is the meaning (relativity between causes and effects) of this teaching? What is the paragraph-to-paragraph relation of it? What is the word-to-word relation of it? (see: "attha" description by tika above for more information.)
avivaṭaṃ (the hidden) means which is hidden.
na vivaranti (not seek) means not showing.
anuttānīkataṃ (the unclear) means which is unclear.
na uttānīkaronti (not clarify) means do not clarify.
kaṅkhāṭṭhānīyesu (question) means about the objects of doubts.
The practitioner can understand the light side by the opposite meaning of all explanation above.
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... monks.html

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