Question about dependent origination

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archaic
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Re: Question about dependent origination

Post by archaic » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:09 am

pegembara wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:12 am

Free will implies that there is a person making all those choices. In the face of anatta, one could say that choices are being made which are driven by causes and conditions without a self behind them.
This is a very good point! My understanding is that the truth of reality is that there truly is no "self" and the more we identify with this false notion, the more we suffer.
freedom wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:49 am

They always have a choice, but with so much ignorance and without wisdom they will choose to follow their cravings until they suffer so much that they could not handle it and start looking for an escape from that suffering. Once they see their ignorance, they will choose differently.

Yes, that's a great explanation as well. However its difficult to reconcile this with the view of non-self, because if there is no self, then who is making the choices?
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:29 am
friend, read the long discourse on dependent origination https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
see if you still have questions
I will do that, thanks.
pegembara wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:24 am

That is the wrong question. There is no "they" so the question of free will doesn't arise.
Ahh... very interesting food for thought...
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

Saengnapha
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Re: Question about dependent origination

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:40 am

archaic wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:09 am
pegembara wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:12 am

Free will implies that there is a person making all those choices. In the face of anatta, one could say that choices are being made which are driven by causes and conditions without a self behind them.
This is a very good point! My understanding is that the truth of reality is that there truly is no "self" and the more we identify with this false notion, the more we suffer.
freedom wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:49 am

They always have a choice, but with so much ignorance and without wisdom they will choose to follow their cravings until they suffer so much that they could not handle it and start looking for an escape from that suffering. Once they see their ignorance, they will choose differently.

Yes, that's a great explanation as well. However its difficult to reconcile this with the view of non-self, because if there is no self, then who is making the choices?
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:29 am
friend, read the long discourse on dependent origination https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
see if you still have questions
I will do that, thanks.
pegembara wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:24 am

That is the wrong question. There is no "they" so the question of free will doesn't arise.
Ahh... very interesting food for thought...
Why do you think about all this? Has your thinking gotten you out of all your troubles or does it cause them? Maybe both. What of the present moment? Does thinking have anything to do with it? Is it not a reflection of the past? Why live in the past? Why live in the world of words? Is that really your present experience?

Donga03
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Re: Question about dependent origination

Post by Donga03 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:52 pm

archaic wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:36 pm
I have an intellectual grasp of dependent origination. Currently I am reading Under the Bodhi Tree by Ajahn Buddhadasa Bhikkhu, which is wonderful and delves into many of the facets of dependent origination.

My question however, is more philosophical. If everything arises from causes - everything is conditional - then would this not imply lack of free will?

Or is this a case where free will, obtenir crédit and lack of free will form a non-dualistic relationship where both are true and yet both are also not true?

Or is my effort in striving to understand this concept misguided, and I would be better inclined to cease trying to cling to views?

I would appreciate feedback from those more permeated with the dhamma than I :thinking:

:namaste:
It's free will

ravana55
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Re: Question about dependent origination

Post by ravana55 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:51 am

It's "cetana", intention. That's what drives kamma. Kamma is intentional, conscious action and it's results. Free will has a central place because without it, there is no moral responsibility.

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Question about dependent origination

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:15 am

"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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