Renunciation of the Sense Pleasures and more?

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
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Namkha
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Renunciation of the Sense Pleasures and more?

Post by Namkha »

I've been studying nekhamma parami and the subject of renunciation. It seems that in the suttas renunciation is taught as letting go of the pleasure of the senses. In the Tapussa sutta (AN 9.41) the Buddha speaks in terms of seeing the drawback of sensual pleasures, understanding the reward of renunciation, by this seeing becoming enthusiastic in renouncing the pleasures of the senses.

I may be partially informed, but is the whole of renunciation? For example, what about renunciation of the negative mind states? Self doubt, anger, hatred, racism, etc.? Is there another way that the Buddha taught to let go of these?

To restate: renunciation as a term in the suttas seems to be about letting go of sensual pleasure. Is there a term or teaching that deals with letting go of mental pain?

I hope I am making sense and thank you.

Namkha
pegembara
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Re: Renunciation of the Sense Pleasures and more?

Post by pegembara »

Basically one renounces or gives up on everything since they all sooner or latter leads to dukkha. Most importantly nothing is ours in the first place.
"Whatever is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit. And what is not yours?

"The eye is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit. Forms are not yours... Eye-consciousness is not yours... Eye-contact is not yours... Whatever arises in dependence on eye-contact, experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain, that too is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit.

"The ear is not yours: let go of it...

"The nose is not yours: let go of it...

"The tongue is not yours: let go of it...

"The body is not yours: let go of it...

"The intellect is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit. Ideas are not yours... Intellect-consciousness is not yours... Intellect-contact is not yours... Whatever arises in dependence on intellect-contact, experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain, that too is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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BasementBuddhist
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Re: Renunciation of the Sense Pleasures and more?

Post by BasementBuddhist »

What is the cause of mental pain? If you perceive mind as a sense, then it is not getting what you want, which would be lack of a sense pleasure. I suspect it falls into the same category.
Derek
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Re: Renunciation of the Sense Pleasures and more?

Post by Derek »

Namkha wrote:what about renunciation of the negative mind states? Self doubt, anger, hatred, racism, etc.? Is there another way that the Buddha taught to let go of these?
I think what you're looking for is the Mahasatipatthana Sutta, especially the section on Cittanupassana. Does that answer your question?
santa100
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Re: Renunciation of the Sense Pleasures and more?

Post by santa100 »

Namkha wrote:Self doubt, anger, hatred, racism, etc.? Is there another way that the Buddha taught to let go of these?
They broadly fall into the 2nd category of the 3 unwholesome roots where each has an appropriate antidote. So renunciation is the antidote to greed (in sense pleasures, etc.), and metta is the antidote to hatred, recism, anger, etc.
pegembara
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Re: Renunciation of the Sense Pleasures and more?

Post by pegembara »

Namkha wrote:
To restate: renunciation as a term in the suttas seems to be about letting go of sensual pleasure. Is there a term or teaching that deals with letting go of mental pain?

Namkha

The Blessed One said, "And which is the burden? 'The five clinging-aggregates,' it should be said. Which five? Form as a clinging-aggregate, feeling as a clinging-aggregate, perception as a clinging-aggregate, fabrications as a clinging-aggregate, consciousness as a clinging-aggregate. This, monks, is called the burden.

"And which is the carrier of the burden? 'The person,' it should be said. This venerable one with such a name, such a clan-name. This is called the carrier of the burden.

"And which is the casting off of the burden? The remainderless fading & cessation, renunciation, relinquishment, release, & letting go of that very craving. This is called the casting off of the burden."

"And which is the casting off of the burden? The remainderless fading & cessation, renunciation, relinquishment, release, & letting go of that very craving. This is called the casting off of the burden."

A burden indeed
are the five aggregates,
and the carrier of the burden
is the person.
Taking up the burden in the world
is stressful.
Casting off the burden
is bliss.
Having cast off the heavy burden
and not taking on another,
pulling up craving,
along with its root,
one is free from hunger,
totally unbound.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
paul
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Re: Renunciation of the Sense Pleasures and more?

Post by paul »

The Buddha explains right intention as threefold: the intention of renunciation, the intention of good will, and the intention of harmlessness. (MN 19).
Renunciation and compassion are contrasting qualities:
http://www.vipassana.com/resources/bodh ... ed_way.php
“Kamasankappa, byapadasankappa, avihimsasankappa. Though kama usually means sensual desire, the context seems to allow a wider interpretation, as self-seeking desire in all its forms.”—-note 15, chap. III “Right Intention”, “The Noble Eightfold Path,” Bikkhu Bodhi.
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BasementBuddhist
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Re: Renunciation of the Sense Pleasures and more?

Post by BasementBuddhist »

paul wrote:The Buddha explains right intention as threefold: the intention of renunciation, the intention of good will, and the intention of harmlessness. (MN 19).
Renunciation and compassion are contrasting qualities:
http://www.vipassana.com/resources/bodh ... ed_way.php
“Kamasankappa, byapadasankappa, avihimsasankappa. Though kama usually means sensual desire, the context seems to allow a wider interpretation, as self-seeking desire in all its forms.”—-note 15, chap. III “Right Intention”, “The Noble Eightfold Path,” Bikkhu Bodhi.

Paul, he isn't saying that Compassion and Renunciation are opposite qualities he says that when you first start out, they seem like they are, because renunciation is done out of a desire to get away from suffering to end it, whereas compassion is the desire to end suffering by wading into. They seem like they are opposed. BUT he then goes on to say in the rest of the article, that once you have reflected on Renunciation with a mature view you get a different interpretation, and if you do the same with compassion you get an additional different interpretation. Then, reflecting on them with some wisdom, they don't seem opposed. In fact he says that they are mutually reinforcing. That compassion drives us towards greater renunciation and that renunciation drives us towards greater compassion
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