Visuddhimagga Summary?

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
atipattoh
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Re: Visuddhimagga Summary?

Post by atipattoh »

:lol:
Hi, i thought of getting a copy of the colour poster from a friend in S'pore as well.
But on 2nd thought, can do it faster by getting a bookstore that has printing service to print the PDF copy on A3 thick paper and laminates it.
zan
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Re: Visuddhimagga Summary?

Post by zan »

JohnK wrote:Question: Is there a respected summary in English of the Visuddhimagga? -- something like the "Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma" being such for the Abhidhamma Pitaka.
(I know the Vism. is much shorter than the Abhidhamma Pitaka, but for now a couple of hundred pages is preferable to even 800. I am still mostly reading through the Sutta Pitaka, which is the priority, but thought some introduction to both the Abhidhamma and the Vism. would be a good idea for now.)
Thank you.
Don't be fooled by Swallowing the River Ganges: a Practice Guide to the Path of Purification by Matthew Flickstein. It is not a guide to the Vidsuddhimagga as I thought it was. It is a fantastic book though just the same. It seems the publisher realized the title was misleading and so they changed the name to A Meditator's Atlas.
Assume all of my words on dhamma could be incorrect. Seek an arahant for truth.


"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
Caodemarte
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Re: Visuddhimagga Summary?

Post by Caodemarte »

zan wrote: Don't be fooled by Swallowing the River Ganges: a Practice Guide to the Path of Purification by Matthew Flickstein. It is not a guide to the Vidsuddhimagga as I thought it was. It is a fantastic book though just the same. It seems the publisher realized the title was misleading and so they changed the name to A Meditator's Atlas.
Could you explain what you mean? I share your liking for the book. The intro to the book (under both titles) states that it is a practice guide and simple summary of the mediation practices in the Vid. Is this inaccurate?
zan
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Re: Visuddhimagga Summary?

Post by zan »

Caodemarte wrote:
zan wrote: Don't be fooled by Swallowing the River Ganges: a Practice Guide to the Path of Purification by Matthew Flickstein. It is not a guide to the Vidsuddhimagga as I thought it was. It is a fantastic book though just the same. It seems the publisher realized the title was misleading and so they changed the name to A Meditator's Atlas.
Could you explain what you mean? I share your liking for the book. The intro to the book (under both titles) states that it is a practice guide and simple summary of the mediation practices in the Vid. Is this inaccurate?
Maybe it's just my own ignorance that lead to confusion about the title.

In my probably flawed opinion, a full guide to the Visuddhimagga would summarize much, much more than what is covered by this book. For example all of the jhanas, kasina meditation, dhutanga practices, and all of the other things in the Visuddhimagga. At the very least, one would expect tables that show all of the headings for the things in the Visuddhimagga, even if those things were not explained or even summarized.

Again, though, I want to say this is a fantastic book!

Either way, I rather feel that a combination of the two titles would be the most accurate: "A Meditator's Guide to the Insight Meditation of the Path of Purification". That way one would know it is related to the Visuddhimagga, but would understand that it is mostly focused on the sections relating directly to the practice of insight meditation, and not a guide intended to summarize the entire work.
Last edited by zan on Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Assume all of my words on dhamma could be incorrect. Seek an arahant for truth.


"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
Caodemarte
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Re: Visuddhimagga Summary?

Post by Caodemarte »

zan wrote: ....I rather feel that a combination of the two titles would be the most accurate: "A Meditator's Guide to the Insight Meditation of the Path of Purification". That way one would know it is related to the Visuddhimagga, but would understand that it is mostly focused on the sections relating directly to the practice of insight meditation, and not a guide intended to summarize the entire work.
Thanks.
zan
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Re: Visuddhimagga Summary?

Post by zan »

Caodemarte wrote:
zan wrote: ....I rather feel that a combination of the two titles would be the most accurate: "A Meditator's Guide to the Insight Meditation of the Path of Purification". That way one would know it is related to the Visuddhimagga, but would understand that it is mostly focused on the sections relating directly to the practice of insight meditation, and not a guide intended to summarize the entire work.
Thanks.
No problem. I was pretty tired when I wrote the first post about the book and now it looks a bit odd. All I was trying to impart was that one could mistake the meditation guide to the insight practices of the Visuddhimagga, with a some other Visuddhimagga related information included, which is what it is, for a systematic summary of the entire Visuddhimagga, which it is not. I assume the OP is looking for the latter.

However I have nothing but good things to say about the book itself and would not want to discourage anyone from reading it! Apologies if it sounded discouraging.
Assume all of my words on dhamma could be incorrect. Seek an arahant for truth.


"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
paul
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Re: Visuddhimagga Summary?

Post by paul »

The primary division of the Visuddhimagga is into the three trainings, Sila, Samadhi and Panna. At the end of the division on morality, the ascetic practices are described, at the end of concentration, five supernormal powers are described, and the sixth, penetrating insight constitutes the third division of the book, understanding. At the end of understanding, enlightenment is described. The substructure follows the seven stages of purification.
form
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Re: Visuddhimagga Summary?

Post by form »

Its chain of progression is based on the content of one sutta that is not repeated in any other sutta. The speaker of that, is not the Buddha or Sariputta.
Ontheway
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Re: Visuddhimagga Summary?

Post by Ontheway »

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Reading this Rathavinita Suttanta further increased my confidence in Visuddhimagga. It is really amazing how Bhandatacariya Buddhaghosa Thera was able to write such profound treatise that can be put in several ways of presentation.

1) Visuddhimagga is a detailed exposition or commentary to the verse found in Samyutta Nikaya:
“When a wise man, established well in virtue, Develops consciousness and understanding, Then as a bhikkhu ardent and sagacious He succeeds in disentangling this tangle” (S I 13).


All of the topics are derived from this Suttanta verse.

2) The Visuddhimagga is divided into three parts: Sila (virtues), Samadhi (concentration) and Panna (wisdom).

3) Visuddhimagga is also comprises three aspects: Pariyatti (learning Dhamma-Vinaya), Patipatti (practising meditation) and Pativeda (realisation of truth).

4) Visuddhimagga served as a concise summary of core teachings found in Pali Tipitaka, with the first part is on the Vinaya Pitaka, the second part is on the Sutta Pitaka, and the third part on the part of Abhidhamma Pitaka.

5) Visuddhimagga also follows the Rathavinita Suttanta's method of exposition, which also praised by Arahant Sariputta Thera.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Joe.c
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Re: Visuddhimagga Summary?

Post by Joe.c »

Hm interesting topic. One who read this book, may need to investigate this book and refer it to Sutta.

Couple questions that may raise some doubts for one who understand Sutta.

1. Why is there no explanation on Four Noble Truth at the beginning of the book? As we know the main teaching of Buddha is 4 Noble Truth. Many Suttas have mentioned, Right View precedes everything even Sila (morality) or samadhi ("concentration"/balance). Also, there is no detail explanation of these term similar to SN 56.11. The keyword "Four Noble Truth" is only found 10-15 times.

Note: This four noble truth section is found on Samadhi section and Panna Section which mean one need to practice virtue and samadhi before they can have right view which is different that how Sutta described.

MN 9 Samma Ditthi
How do you define a noble disciple who has right view, whose view is correct, who has experiential confidence in the teaching, and has come to the true teaching?”
Also MN 56 or AN 8.22 for one who attain Dhamma-Cakkhu (Right view = Sotapanna Magga)
"Then Upāli saw, attained, understood, and fathomed the Dhamma. He went beyond doubt, got rid of indecision, and became self-assured and independent of others regarding the Teacher’s instructions."
And for right view to arise, there is only 2 conditions (MN 43).

2. Also if you read virtue/morality section, you will understand purification of virtue is different from how Buddha explained. If you read SN 55.7 Veḷudvāreyya Sutta and MN 61 Ambalaṭṭhikarāhulovāda Sutta, one will understand virtue that buddha explained is based on:
a. Reflection after reflection before/when/after someone doing conducts (MN 61) or
b. One act because of happiness of himself and others (SN 55.7).
This type of morality conducts with understanding is called SilasamPanna. This is why Vinaya is very complete with example for new recruit to understand the reason behind why the rules are being stated by Buddha and Elders.

3. If you search Noble Eightfold path, one only find 10-15 times of this keyword in this book. There is no detail explanation about this eightfold path. As Buddha explain in SN 56.11 Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta. One need to know path, develop the path and completely develop the path to reach the freedom. So why is that the book never explain it?
...“‘This is the noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering’: thus, bhikkhus, in regard to things unheard before, there arose in me vision, knowledge, wisdom, true knowledge, and light.

“‘This noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering is to be developed’: thus, bhikkhus, in regard to things unheard before, there arose in me vision, knowledge, wisdom, true knowledge, and light.

“‘This noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering has been developed’: thus, bhikkhus, in regard to things unheard before, there arose in me vision, knowledge, wisdom, true knowledge, and light.
One who read/hear/investigate Sutta, they will know. Sutta is very consistent, although there is some wrong translation. One can refer to other discourses for better understanding and practice.

If I miss anything, please let me know. I also want to learn if there is other explanation.

Note: Not all in this book is different from Sutta. But the main idea is missing from Buddha Teaching that is one need to understand four noble truth first to start the practice.
May you be relax, happy, comfortable and free of dukkhas from hearing true dhamma.
May you gain unshakable confidence in Buddha, Dhamma and (Ariya) Sangha.
Learn about Buddha/Dhamma Characters.
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equilibrium
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Re: Visuddhimagga Summary?

Post by equilibrium »

Mundane right view:
This is where one is on the N8FP trying to reach supramundane right view.
This right view is merely an mundane understanding of the N8FP will lead one to the other shore….so to realise the 4NT.

Supramundane right view:
This is when after reaching it, you know the 4NT by direct knowledge/vision. This right view is the resultant of following the N8FP……you have reached the other shore…..escaped samsara.

One cannot “know” the 4NT while being on the path….the difference between walking the path and knowing the path.
Joe.c
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Re: Visuddhimagga Summary?

Post by Joe.c »

Can you refer to me where in the Sutta mundane right view and supermundane right view? Is this referring to MN 117?

If it is referring to MN 117, one need to understand the pali of sasava and anasava Samma Ditthi.

As far as I know when one see 4NT and practice N8FP, one is already transcendent (above the puthujjana - common folks), but of course you need jhana to weed off the asava, hence there are 2 right views.

Sasava Samma Ditthi is for Sotapanna and Sakadagami (right view with defilements/influences). And Anasava Samma Ditthi (right view without defilements/influences) is for Anagami and Arahant who is on Jhana most of the time if not 24/7.

But all of them has dhamma cakkhu by seeing/experience the 4NT and practice N8FP.

I think Doodoot also explain this before, maybe not very clearly.
May you be relax, happy, comfortable and free of dukkhas from hearing true dhamma.
May you gain unshakable confidence in Buddha, Dhamma and (Ariya) Sangha.
Learn about Buddha/Dhamma Characters.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Visuddhimagga Summary?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Joe.c wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:50 pm Sasava Samma Ditthi is for Sotapanna and Sakadagami (right view with defilements/influences). And Anasava Samma Ditthi (right view without defilements/influences) is for Anagami and Arahant who is on Jhana most of the time if not 24/7.
The Buddha and Arahants aren't in Jhāna 24/7.
“The teacher willed that this world appear to me
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
Joe.c
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Re: Visuddhimagga Summary?

Post by Joe.c »

The Buddha and Arahants aren't in Jhāna 24/7.
Too bad, you still dont understand the teaching.

One who has fully developed Samma Sati will have Samma Samadhi. At the very least 1st jhana, Buddha and Arahant maintain the Sati for 24/7.

In anyway, Do you know why Buddha ask the devotee to maintain Noble Silent?

Also do you know the meaning of this pali for third Jhana?
yaṁ taṁ ariyā ācikkhanti: ‘upekkhako satimā sukhavihārī’ti, tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.
May you be relax, happy, comfortable and free of dukkhas from hearing true dhamma.
May you gain unshakable confidence in Buddha, Dhamma and (Ariya) Sangha.
Learn about Buddha/Dhamma Characters.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Visuddhimagga Summary?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Joe.c wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:02 pm
The Buddha and Arahants aren't in Jhāna 24/7.
Too bad, you still dont understand the teaching.

One who has fully developed Samma Sati will have Samma Samadhi. At the very least 1st jhana, Buddha and Arahant maintain the Sati for 24/7.

In anyway, Do you know why Buddha ask the devotee to maintain Noble Silent?

Also do you know the meaning of this pali for third Jhana?
yaṁ taṁ ariyā ācikkhanti: ‘upekkhako satimā sukhavihārī’ti, tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.
If the Buddha was in Jhāna 24/7 why then are we told that he entered and left the different Jhānas, for example when dying?
“The teacher willed that this world appear to me
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
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