When the eye does not exist?

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
Chandaka
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When the eye does not exist?

Post by Chandaka »

In the Sutta 133 (10) Verahaccani of the Samyutta Nikaya it says: “…the arahants maintain that when the eye exists there is pleasure and pain, and when the eye does not exist there is no pleasure and pain.” What does it mean, exactly when it says, “the eye does not exist?” It does not mean physically non-existing, right? :)
SarathW
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by SarathW »

Yes.
It does not mean that your have to be physically blind.
In fact physical blindness and deafness etc. are road blocks for the path.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Chandaka
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by Chandaka »

SarathW wrote:Yes.
It does not mean that your have to be physically blind.
In fact physical blindness and deafness etc. are road blocks for the path.
But what does it mean? Does it mean to see the eye as being empty of actual reality?
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Nicolas
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by Nicolas »

When there is no eye-consciousness, no forms, or no eye, there is no contact at the eye, the eye does not "exist" then.
Chandaka
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by Chandaka »

Nicolas wrote:When there is no eye-consciousness, no forms, or no eye, there is no contact at the eye, the eye does not "exist" then.
So does it mean that we should strive for unconsciousness? Please stay with me on this. I am slightly confused and need extra clarity.
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Nicolas
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by Nicolas »

The goal is to not be reborn. There are no sense bases in Nibbana.
Nibbānasukha Sutta (AN 9.34) wrote: “This Unbinding is pleasant, friends. This Unbinding is pleasant.

“But what is the pleasure here, my friend, where there is nothing felt?”

“Just that is the pleasure here, my friend: where there is nothing felt.
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Mkoll
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by Mkoll »

Chandaka wrote:
Nicolas wrote:When there is no eye-consciousness, no forms, or no eye, there is no contact at the eye, the eye does not "exist" then.
So does it mean that we should strive for unconsciousness? Please stay with me on this. I am slightly confused and need extra clarity.
As far as striving is concerned, we strive to develop the 37 bodhipakkhiyā dhammā. Things will fall into place if you do that.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
SarathW
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by SarathW »

Chandaka wrote:
SarathW wrote:Yes.
It does not mean that your have to be physically blind.
In fact physical blindness and deafness etc. are road blocks for the path.
But what does it mean? Does it mean to see the eye as being empty of actual reality?
The best way to understand this is by understanding that consciousness can take only one object at a time.
When you have eye consciousness you do not have the ear consciousness.
So when you hear ear exist but not the eye.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Chandaka
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by Chandaka »

Mkoll wrote:
Chandaka wrote:
Nicolas wrote:When there is no eye-consciousness, no forms, or no eye, there is no contact at the eye, the eye does not "exist" then.
So does it mean that we should strive for unconsciousness? Please stay with me on this. I am slightly confused and need extra clarity.
As far as striving is concerned, we strive to develop the 37 bodhipakkhiyā dhammā. Things will fall into place if you do that.
Does one strive for the 37 bodhipakkhiyā one at a time? Or is it more of a non-linear, organic nature?
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Mkoll
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by Mkoll »

Definitely non-linear and organic. The 37 bodhipakkhiyā dhammā are just a useful summary of things to be developed.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
SarathW
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by SarathW »

Mkoll wrote:Definitely non-linear and organic. The 37 bodhipakkhiyā dhammā are just a useful summary of things to be developed.

:goodpost:

Yes it clears up like a jug of muddy water.
Hard materials come to the bottom first.
Just keep it still.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
santa100
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by santa100 »

In SN 35.133, by the cessation of the eye, Ven. Udayi was referring to the ultimate state of Nibbana without residue. From SN 35.117, another sutta in the same Division III's The Third Fifty as SN 35.133, the Comy. says:
Spk: “It is Nibbana that is called the cessation of the six sense bases, for in Nibbana the eye, etc., cease and perceptions of forms, etc., fade away.”
Chandaka
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by Chandaka »

santa100 wrote:In SN 35.133, by the cessation of the eye, Ven. Udayi was referring to the ultimate state of Nibbana without residue. From SN 35.117, another sutta in the same Division III's The Third Fifty as SN 35.133, the Comy. says:
Spk: “It is Nibbana that is called the cessation of the six sense bases, for in Nibbana the eye, etc., cease and perceptions of forms, etc., fade away.”
How long does it last?
santa100
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by santa100 »

You probably didn't read the hyperlink I provided. Nibbana without residue means the death of the arahant. Since "s/he" won't come back, the sense bases cease to exist.
Chandaka
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by Chandaka »

santa100 wrote:You probably didn't read the hyperlink I provided. Nibbana without residue means the death of the arahant. Since "s/he" won't come back, the sense bases cease to exist.
Sorry, am reading it now.
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