When the eye does not exist?

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santa100
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by santa100 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:20 pm

But Mind moments' momentariness is not an invention of the Sangaha. It's already there in the Vibhanga. So, the momentariness as an idea is nothing new, it's the full details (full series of the stages, nomenclature and explanation) that would be unique in the Sangaha. In the words of Ven. Nyanaponika in "Guide Through the Abhidhamma Pitaka":
By the way, it may here be noted that, just as in the Abhidhamma Piþaka many terms are being found, which one may in vain may look for in the Sutta Piþaka, so again in the Abhidhammatthasaògaha and the commentaries, various other new terms, and even teachings, are introduced. This, however, does not necessarily imply any deviation from the canonical Abhidhamma with regard to its contents, but may show the necessity felt of having terms better fitted for the work of summarizing and systematizing.

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mikenz66
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:12 am

Can you point to the Vibhanga passage that you think implies momentariness? Presumably it is in the Dependent Origination section?
https://suttacentral.net/en/vb6

This sort of statement?
Herein, what is ‘with a (volitional) process as condition: consciousness?’

That which is thought, mind, mentality, heart, consciousness, mind, the mind sense sphere, the mind faculty, consciousness, the consciousness constituent, the mind-consciousness element arising from that: this is said to be ‘with a (volitional) process as condition: consciousness’.
Actually Ven Ānandajoti does explain that in his introduction:
http://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/E ... nation.pdf
The first thing to notice here is that the second factor is now not
(volitional) processes in the plural, but a single (volitional) process,
because we are only dealing now with a single mind moment.
:anjali:
Mike

santa100
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by santa100 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:07 pm

mikenz66 wrote:Can you point to the Vibhanga passage that you think implies momentariness? Presumably it is in the Dependent Origination section?
Not from Vb 6, it's from Vb 3.:
“Immediately after the arising and passing away of the eyeconsciousness-element, there arises the mind-element; and, again
immediately after the arising and passing away of the mindelement, there arises the mind, the corresponding mindconsciousness-element.”
And Ven. Nyanapokika's note:
The two passages quoted above refer to the momentary stages in a single process of cognition (cittavìthi). There are a
few other references to these stages in the Paþþhána and also in the Paþisambhidámagga. But the full series of these stages of
cognitive consciousness, with nomenclature and explanations, is found only in the commentarial literature.

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mikenz66
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:05 pm

Thanks, that's very helpful, and well in accord with some sutta material.
Just as a monkey roaming through a forest grabs hold of one branch, lets that go and grabs another, then lets that go and grabs still another, so too that which is called ‘mind’ and ‘mentality’ and ‘consciousness’ arises as one thing and ceases as another by day and by night.
https://suttacentral.net/en/sn12.61/4.398-
:anjali:
Mike

form
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Re: When the eye does not exist?

Post by form » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:50 am

This is probably a question that one will not find the answer by questioning another person. Just like if there is no person why is there karma etc.

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