Good advice thank you. I've been practicing for a decade and a half and I'm still at the starting line.santa100 wrote:Don't rush. Take your time and enjoy the ride. Dhamma cultivation is a marathon, not a sprint.
Breath as concept vs breath as touch and movement?
Re: Breath as concept vs breath as touch and movement?
Assume all of my words on dhamma could be incorrect. Seek an arahant for truth.
"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
Re: Breath as concept vs breath as touch and movement?
Only a decade and a half? That's just a blink of an eye in Samsaric time... 
Joking aside, there's no time limit to cultivation. Plenty of examples of monks who practiced half their lives or even longer only to fall for some woman or fame or money at the end...
Joking aside, there's no time limit to cultivation. Plenty of examples of monks who practiced half their lives or even longer only to fall for some woman or fame or money at the end...Re: Breath as concept vs breath as touch and movement?
I know, oh wellsanta100 wrote:Only a decade and a half? That's just a blink of an eye in Samsaric time...
Assume all of my words on dhamma could be incorrect. Seek an arahant for truth.
"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
Re: Breath as concept vs breath as touch and movement?
Yes, but in common with breath, brahmaviharas, etc, it's a conceptual creation that one becomes absorbed/unified with, not details ("ultimate realities").santa100 wrote:Actually, kasina meditation (earth kasina for example) can lead to jhana as per Vism. IV.22 (page 117)
Mike
Re: Breath as concept vs breath as touch and movement?
And, of course, when I say "one" I'm not talking from much personal experience, but it seems quite clear from reading ancient commentaries, such as the Visuddhimagga, and modern instructions (such as Ajahn Brahm) that deep absorption requires simple conceptual objects, and insight requires following details (sometimes described as "ultimate realities", but perhaps "irreducible realities" would be a better, less loaded, term).santa100 wrote:Indeed.
Mike
Re: Breath as concept vs breath as touch and movement?
Right, we're like novice cooks who can memorize and recite the recipes. But to become the chefs who can make wonderful tasty dishes, that needs a lot more effort...
Re: Breath as concept vs breath as touch and movement?
The reference to "ultimate realities" here, and in this thread generally, isn't that clear, at least with reference to the 2nd sentence of the Abhidhammattha-Sangaha:mikenz66 wrote:Yes, but in common with breath, brahmaviharas, etc, it's a conceptual creation that one becomes absorbed/unified with, not details ("ultimate realities").santa100 wrote:Actually, kasina meditation (earth kasina for example) can lead to jhana as per Vism. IV.22 (page 117)
Catudhā paramatthato
Cittam cetasikam rūpam
Nibbānam…
The four ultimate realities (paramatthato) – mind-states (Cittam), mental factors (cetasikam), matter (rūpam), and Nibbāna.
A nimitta experience is a mind-state, and is definitely related to matter (rūpa-jhāna). The "details", as investigated in vipassana (e.g. in Sariputta's process as per MN-111) correspond more to the mental factors aspect (cetasika)).
Again, I find something like "mental image" more suitable than "conceptual form", as a concept, in common usage, is more often considered an idea that can expressed in a specific word or term.