By way of elements..beings unite. (SN 14:14- 14:29)

[Sam Vara]

Thanks for this - I had forgotten these suttas. They are not clear as to whether the uniting of beings refers to qualities in this lifetime only, which would make this a naturalistic observation about psychological tendencies; or whether it also includes kamma operating from a previous existence. This would explain how a strong tendency towards virtue or mischief can find an outlet by means of our interactions with people whose paths cross ours in this life.

[mikenz66]

Thanks for reminding us of these suttas, Phil.

It's worth carefully reading Bhikkhu Bodhi's introduction to this Samyutta:

4. Dhatusamyutta

This saṃyutta consists of thirty-nine suttas, arranged into four vaggas, all concerned in some way with elements. The word “elements” (dhātu) is applied to several quite disparate groups of phenomena, and thus the suttas in this chapter fall into separate clusters with nothing in common but their concern with entities called elements.

Thus, as has been said, dhātu has a variety of meanings, and it would be a mistake to think that the word always refers to the same type of element/property. There are the "four great elements" that make up rupa (earth, water, heat, and air), the 18 element of the sense faculties, objects, and corresponding types of consciousness, and a number of others.

Regarding the use of dhātu in suttas under discussion:

Then there follows a long series of suttas, 14:14–29, in which the word “element” is used in the sense of personal disposition. With respect to numerous contrasting qualities,
good and bad, the point is made that people come together because of personal affinities rooted in these qualities. One memorable sutta in this group shows each of the Buddha’s leading disciples walking in the company of fellow monks who share his field of interest; even Devadatta, the miscreant in the Saṅgha, has his own entourage made up of those with evil wishes (14:15).

The first in the group of suttas is:

At Sāvatthı̄. “Bhikkhus, it is by way of elements that beings come together and unite. Those of an inferior disposition come together and unite with those of an inferior disposition; those of a good disposition come together and unite with those of a good disposition. In the past, by way of elements, beings came together and united…. In the future, too, by way of elements, beings will come together and unite…. Now too, at present, by way of elements, beings come together and unite. Those of an inferior disposition come together and unite with those of an inferior disposition; those of a good disposition come together and unite with those of a good disposition.”

The rest of the suttas give examples of this. As Bhikkhu Bodhi notes, mention of Devadatta comes after the mention of several righteous monks.

...
Do you see Ānanda walking back and forth with a number of bhikkhus?”
“Yes, venerable sir.”
“All those bhikkhus are highly learned.
Do you see Devadatta walking back and forth with a number of bhikkhus?”
“Yes, venerable sir.”
“All those bhikkhus have evil wishes.
“Bhikkhus, it is by way of elements that beings come together and unite. ...

Reading "elements" here as "personal disposition" seems reasonable in these suttas, but, as Sam notes, it's interesting to consider whether this is simply about psychological tendencies, or about kamma acting across lifetimes.


Mike

[mikenz66]

For more examples of various types of elements see MN 115. That sutta doesn't include either the four elements or the type of element under discussion in this thread.


Mike

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Reading "elements" here as "personal disposition" seems reasonable in these suttas, but, as Sam notes, it's interesting to consider whether this is simply about psychological tendencies, or about kamma acting across lifetimes.

I would say it is both. Our personal dispositions are formed over many lifetimes, and not just in this very life.

Devadatta and Yasodharā were brother and sister, but of quite different dispositions, so one's disposition is not determined solely or even primarily by one's parents and upbringing. Of Nature and Nurture, I would say that Nature is the more powerful factor.

[SarathW]

Interesting observation Bhante.
Devadatta is the brother in law of Prince Siddhartha (Buddha)
Some may question, how bad element (Devadatta) got together with good element (Buddha)

[gavesako]

It struck me how similar this description sounds:

Rupert Sheldrake on Morphic Fields and Systemic Family Constellations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JydjryhEl5o

"Patterns of family fields"