yoniso manasikara in the texts.

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phil
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yoniso manasikara in the texts.

Post by phil » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:40 am

Dear all

I've always been unclear on the meaning of yoniso manasikara. Sometimes it seems to be used synonymously with appamada, for example a Burmese sayadaw who said that it is "the attitude that makes akusala impossible." But recently when studying CMA I found that it is said to be the factor (rather than panna) that permits the extraction of realities from concepts, if you will. A search turned up this useful post by Starter which will be a good starter.

Phil
Hello Dymtro and other friends,

Many thanks for your great input to the thread on the suttas about sense restraint. Nice to have you and other admirable friends in this forum. Have you gotten a collection of suttas on yoniso monasikara as well? Before practicing sense restraint and 4 establishment of mindfulness, it's even more important to practice right attention/consideration/reflection (where to put our attention and how to attend wisely), since only yoniso manasikara can lead to the abandonment of defilements/purification of mind and right speech/conduct/livelihood.

I've found the following relevant suttas (part 1):

MN2:
"The Blessed One said, "Monks, the ending of the fermentations is for one who knows & sees, I tell you, not for one who does not know & does not see. For one who knows what & sees what? Appropriate attention & inappropriate attention. When a monk attends inappropriately, unarisen fermentations arise, and arisen fermentations increase. When a monk attends appropriately, unarisen fermentations do not arise, and arisen fermentations are abandoned. There are fermentations to be abandoned by seeing, those to be abandoned by restraining, those to be abandoned by using, those to be abandoned by tolerating, those to be abandoned by avoiding, those to be abandoned by destroying, and those to be abandoned by developing."

"... He wisely attends: ‘This is suffering'; ‘This is the origin of suffering'; ‘This is the cessation of suffering'; ‘This is the way leading to the cessation of suffering. ...'"

S 45.55/5:31:
Dawn, bhikshus, is the forerunner, the harbinger of sun-rise.
Even so, bhikshus, for a monk this is the forerunner, the harbinger of the arising of the noble eightfold path, that is, accomplishment in wise attention.
Bhikshus, when a monk is accomplished in this wise attention, it is to be expected that he will cultivate the noble eightfold path, develop the noble eightfold path."

Iti 16:
"This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard: "With regard to internal factors, I don't envision any other single factor like appropriate attention as doing so much for a monk in training, who has not attained the heart's goal but remains intent on the unsurpassed safety from bondage. A monk who attends appropriately abandons what is unskillful and develops what is skillful."

AN 4:246 & SN 55:5
The four “virtues conducive to growth”/the “factors for attaining stream-entry:”
1) association with wise friends (kalyanamitta);
2) listening to true dhamma;
3) wise attention/reflection;
4) practise in accordance with true teaching.

SN 9.11
"... From inappropriate attention you're being chewed by your thoughts. Relinquishing what's inappropriate, contemplate appropriately. Keeping your mind on the Teacher, the Dhamma, the Sangha, your virtues, you will arrive at joy, rapture, pleasure without doubt. Then, saturated with joy, you will put an end to suffering & stress."

MN 61:
Regarding any verbal/bodily/mental activity, one should reflect before/during/after it:
"Whatever action you intend to perform, by body, speech or mind, you should consider that action... If, in considering it, you realize: 'This action which I intend to perform will be harmful to myself, or harmful to others or harmful to both; it will be an unwholesome action, producing suffering, resulting in suffering' — then you should certainly not perform that action.

"Also while you are performing an action, by body, speech or mind, you should consider that action... If, in considering it, you realize: 'This action which I am performing is harmful to myself, or harmful to others or harmful to both; it is an unwholesome action, producing suffering, resulting in suffering' — then you should desist from such an action.

"Also after you have performed an action, by body, speech or mind, you should consider that action... If, in considering it, you realize: 'This action which I have performed has been harmful to myself, or harmful to others, or harmful to both; it was an unwholesome action, producing suffering, resulting in suffering — then you should in the future refrain from it."

“Is it leading to self-affliction [bodily and mental disturbances that are harmful to one's Dhamma practice], to the affliction of others, or to both? Is it an unwholesome [non-factual, ill-intentioned, ...] activity, with painful consequences, painful results [1) karmic; 2)obstructing panna, causing inner disturbances/turmoils, and leading away from nibbana] ? If, on reflection, you know that it is leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both, it is an unwholesome activity with painful consequences, painful results, then any activity of that sort is absolutely inappropriate for you to do. But if, on reflection, you know that it is not leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it is an wholesome activity with happy consequences, happy results, then any activity of that sort is appropriate for you to do.”


SN 22.122 [contemplate anicca/dukkha/anatta of 5 aggregates for the 8 types of noble disciples.]

Patisambhidamagga. Treatise I, 409:
"Nine ideas rooted in appropriate attention:
1) When he give appropriate attention [to an object] as impermanent
gladness springs up in him.
2) When he is glad, happiness springs up in him.
3) When he is happy, his body becomes tranquil.
4) When his body is tranquil, he feels pleasure.
5) When he has pleasure, his cognizance becomes concentrated.
6) When his cognizance is concentrated, he understands correctly 'This
is suffering'.
7) He understands correctly 'This is the origin of suffering.
8) He understands correctly 'This is the cessation of suffering'.
9) He understands correctly 'This is the way leading to the cessation of
suffering'."
"When he gives appropriate attention [to an object] as painful ... When he gives
appropriate attention [to an object] as not self, gladness springs up in him ...
He understands correctly 'This is the way leading to the cessation of
suffering'."

AN 2.125-126:
As a condition for right view: voice of another (the Buddha) and right attention.

AN 3.68:
As the key to abandoning greed, hatred, delusion.
[For one who attends inappropriately to the theme of the attractive / irritation …, unarisen passion / aversion / delusion arises and arisen passion / aversion / delusion tends to growth & abundance...
For one who attends appropriately to the theme of the unattractive / good will as an awareness-release / …, unarisen passion / aversion / delusion does not arise and arisen passion is abandoned...]

AN 10.61 Avijja Sutta:
"What is the nutriment
for restraint of the senses?
Mindfulness & alertness...
And what is the nutriment for mindfulness & alertness?
Appropriate attention...
And what is the nutriment for appropriate attention? Conviction ..."

SN S 46.2:
Unwise attention gives rise to the five mental hindrances—sensual desire, ill will, sloth and torpor, restlessness and remorse, and doubt—which prevent us from attaining Samadhi.

SN. 12.10 Nidana-samyutta:
In this sutta the Buddha explains how he became enlightened by investigating the cause of aging-and-death via wise attention:
"Bhikkhus, before my enlightenment, while I was still a bodhisatta, not yet fully enlightened, it occurred to me: “Alas, this world has fallen into trouble, in that it is born, ages, and dies, it passes away and is reborn, yet it does not understand the escape from this suffering led by aging-and-death. When will an escape be discerned from this suffering led by aging-and-death?" Then, bhikkhus, it occurred to me: “When what exists does aging-and-death come to be? By what is aging-and-death conditioned?" Then, bhikkhus, through wise attention, there took place in me a breakthrough by wisdom: “When
there is birth, aging-and-death comes to be; aging-and-death has birth as its condition.¨

Metta to all,

Starter
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)

SarathW
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Re: yoniso manasikara in the texts.

Post by SarathW » Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:07 am

If you understand the Javana process in Abhidhamma, you will have a birds eye view of the meaning of Yoniso Manasikara.
======
Kamma is performedat this stage; if viewed rightly (yoniso manasikàra), the
Javanana becomes moral; if viewed wrongly (ayoniso manasikàra),
it becomes immoral. In the case of an Arahant this
Javana is neither moral nor immoral, but merely functional
(Kiriya).
Page 50
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/abhidhamma.pdf
=========
When you see a woman ( or a man) how do you see it:
-mother, sister, workmate, sex object, five aggregate, impermanace, Dukkha etc.
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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phil
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Re: yoniso manasikara in the texts.

Post by phil » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:24 am

SarathW wrote:If you understand the Javana process in Abhidhamma, you will have a birds eye view of the meaning of Yoniso Manasikara.
======
Kamma is performedat this stage; if viewed rightly (yoniso manasikàra), the
Javanana becomes moral; if viewed wrongly (ayoniso manasikàra),
it becomes immoral. In the case of an Arahant this
Javana is neither moral nor immoral, but merely functional
(Kiriya).
Page 50
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/abhidhamma.pdf
=========
When you see a woman ( or a man) how do you see it:
-mother, sister, workmate, sex object, five aggregate, impermanace, Dukkha etc.
:)

Thanks SarathW

If I recall correctly (I may be wrong) manasikara
is one of the universal cetasikas accompanying all cittas, therefore at the javanas that cetasika is either kusala or akusala, and thereby goes the javanas? . But what of panna? It always seems to me that it would be the function of panna to condition the javanas being wholesome or unwholesome. I guess the answer is that there are many factors functioning together.

Thanks.

Phil
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)

SarathW
Posts: 10349
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: yoniso manasikara in the texts.

Post by SarathW » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:29 am

The universal mental factors. There are seven mental factors which are called universals because they are common to every state of consciousness. Two are feeling and perception mentioned above. The order in which the other five are given has no sequential significance as they all co-exist in any state of consciousness. They are:
1.Contact (phassa), the coming together of the sense organ, object, and appropriate consciousness.
2.Concentration (ekaggataa), the mental focus on one object to the exclusion of all other objects.
3.Attention (manasikaara), the mind's spontaneous turning to the object which binds the associated mental factors to it.
4.Psychic life (jiivitindriya), the vital force supporting and maintaining the other mental factors.
5.Volition (cetanaa), the act of willing. From a psychological standpoint, volition determines the activities of the associated states; from an ethical standpoint it determines its inevitable consequences. Volition leads to action by body, speech and mind and thus becomes the principal factor behind kamma. Therefore the Buddha said: "cetanaaha.m bhikkhave kamma.m vadaami" — "Volition, O monks, is kamma, I declare." Thus wholesome or unwholesome acts, willfully done, are followed at some time by their appropriate consequences. But if one unintentionally steps on an insect and kills it, such an act has no moral or kammic significance as volition is absent. The Buddha's position here contrasts with that of his contemporary, Niga.n.tha Naataputta, the founder of Jainism. Naataputta taught that even involuntary actions constitute kamma, thus release from sa.msaara (the round of rebirths) can be achieved only by abstaining from all activities.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el322.html
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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phil
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Re: yoniso manasikara in the texts.

Post by phil » Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:39 am

SarathW wrote:The universal mental factors. There are seven mental factors which are called universals because they are common to every state of consciousness. Two are feeling and perception mentioned above. The order in which the other five are given has no sequential significance as they all co-exist in any state of consciousness. They are:
1.Contact (phassa), the coming together of the sense organ, object, and appropriate consciousness.
2.Concentration (ekaggataa), the mental focus on one object to the exclusion of all other objects.
3.Attention (manasikaara), the mind's spontaneous turning to the object which binds the associated mental factors to it.
4.Psychic life (jiivitindriya), the vital force supporting and maintaining the other mental factors.
5.Volition (cetanaa), the act of willing. From a psychological standpoint, volition determines the activities of the associated states; from an ethical standpoint it determines its inevitable consequences. Volition leads to action by body, speech and mind and thus becomes the principal factor behind kamma. Therefore the Buddha said: "cetanaaha.m bhikkhave kamma.m vadaami" — "Volition, O monks, is kamma, I declare." Thus wholesome or unwholesome acts, willfully done, are followed at some time by their appropriate consequences. But if one unintentionally steps on an insect and kills it, such an act has no moral or kammic significance as volition is absent. The Buddha's position here contrasts with that of his contemporary, Niga.n.tha Naataputta, the founder of Jainism. Naataputta taught that even involuntary actions constitute kamma, thus release from sa.msaara (the round of rebirths) can be achieved only by abstaining from all activities.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el322.html
:)
Thank you Sarath W. I may return to this later if no one else does..

Phil
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)

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Kumara
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Re: yoniso manasikara in the texts.

Post by Kumara » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:49 am

phil wrote:
Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:40 am
I've always been unclear on the meaning of yoniso manasikara.
I can really empathize with that. I recently gave this much thought, and made my conclusion here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6006&p=481382#p481382
I'm not just a monk. I'm a human being. — Sayadaw U Jotika

paul
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Re: yoniso manasikara in the texts.

Post by paul » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:35 am

In practice appropriate attention is possibly the easiest thing to understand in Theravada, it means choosing what ideas are fit for attention and what are not fit for attention, the immediate choice the practitioner is continually confronted with in going against the current of samsara, and which is so important to breaking out of the cycle, as described in MN 2.

The only conceivable cause for confusion might be difficulty in reconciling it with mindfulness. If it is understood that mindfulness can incline either towards samadhi or right effort depending on the state of the mind, then wise attention is incorporated with the active mode of mindfulness in its implementation of right effort. In doing that it is undertaking the actions of the fourth foundation of mindfulness, as seen in SN 46:51.---adapted from "Right Mindfulness", Thanissaro.

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Re: yoniso manasikara in the texts.

Post by Kumara » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:26 am

In deciding what yoniso manasikara means—without being misled by available translations and interpretations, consider a passage quoted earlier:
S 45.55/5:31:
Dawn, bhikshus, is the forerunner, the harbinger of sun-rise.
Even so, bhikshus, for a monk this is the forerunner, the harbinger of the arising of the noble eightfold path, that is, accomplishment in wise attention.
Bhikshus, when a monk is accomplished in this wise attention, it is to be expected that he will cultivate the noble eightfold path, develop the noble eightfold path.
I'm not just a monk. I'm a human being. — Sayadaw U Jotika

paul
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Re: yoniso manasikara in the texts.

Post by paul » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:11 am

Exactly. "The harbinger of the sunrise"=
"the immediate choice the practitioner is continually confronted with in going against the current of samsara, and which is so important to breaking out of the cycle"
The understanding of appropriate attention comes first and foremost from my own experience, and I only use Thanissaro's writing because it better expresses what I have already known.

justindesilva
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Re: yoniso manasikara in the texts.

Post by justindesilva » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:59 pm

phil wrote:
Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:40 am
Dear all

I've always been unclear on the meaning of yoniso manasikara. Sometimes it seems to be used synonymously with appamada, for example a Burmese sayadaw who said that it is "the attitude that makes akusala impossible." But recently when studying CMA I found that it is said to be the factor (rather than panna) that permits the extraction of realities from concepts, if you will. A search turned up this useful post by Starter which will be a good starter. h

Phil
Hello Dymtro and other friends,

Many thanks for your great input to the thread on the suttas about sense restraint. Nice to have you and other admirable friends in this forum. Have you gotten a collection of suttas on yoniso monasikara as well? Before practicing sense restraint and 4 establishment of mindfulness, it's even more important to practice right attention/consideration/reflection (where to put our attention and how to attend wisely), since only yoniso manasikara can lead to the abandonment of defilements/purification of mind and right speech/conduct/livelihood.

I've found the following relevant suttas (part 1):

MN2:
"The Blessed One said, "Monks, the ending of the fermentations is for one who knows & sees, I tell you, not for one who does not know & does not see. For one who knows what & sees what? Appropriate attention & inappropriate attention. When a monk attends inappropriately, unarisen fermentations arise, and arisen fermentations increase. When a monk attends appropriately, unarisen fermentations do not arise, and arisen fermentations are abandoned. There are fermentations to be abandoned by seeing, those to be abandoned by restraining, those to be abandoned by using, those to be abandoned by tolerating, those to be abandoned by avoiding, those to be abandoned by destroying, and those to be abandoned by developing."

"... He wisely attends: ‘This is suffering'; ‘This is the origin of suffering'; ‘This is the cessation of suffering'; ‘This is the way leading to the cessation of suffering. ...'"

S 45.55/5:31:
Dawn, bhikshus, is the forerunner, the harbinger of sun-rise.
Even so, bhikshus, for a monk this is the forerunner, the harbinger of the arising of the noble eightfold path, that is, accomplishment in wise attention.
Bhikshus, when a monk is accomplished in this wise attention, it is to be expected that he will cultivate the noble eightfold path, develop the noble eightfold path."

Iti 16:
"This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard: "With regard to internal factors, I don't envision any other single factor like appropriate attention as doing so much for a monk in training, who has not attained the heart's goal but remains intent on the unsurpassed safety from bondage. A monk who attends appropriately abandons what is unskillful and develops what is skillful."

AN 4:246 & SN 55:5
The four “virtues conducive to growth”/the “factors for attaining stream-entry:”
1) association with wise friends (kalyanamitta);
2) listening to true dhamma;
3) wise attention/reflection;
4) practise in accordance with true teaching.

SN 9.11
"... From inappropriate attention you're being chewed by your thoughts. Relinquishing what's inappropriate, contemplate appropriately. Keeping your mind on the Teacher, the Dhamma, the Sangha, your virtues, you will arrive at joy, rapture, pleasure without doubt. Then, saturated with joy, you will put an end to suffering & stress."

SN S 46.2:
Unwise attention gives rise to the five mental hindrances—sensual desire, ill will, sloth and torpor, restlessness and remorse, and doubt—which prevent us from attaining Samadhi.

Starter
SN 9.11 is Ayoniso manasikara sutta as quoted above is an ideal sutta , to show the positive by exllsining the negative.
This sutta explains about a monk who was having ill will, unskilled thoughts with harm ., and a devata who sees him with compassion and the fact that the monk is having ayoniso manasikara ( inappropriate attention ) tiwards his goal in him .
That is when devata brings the attention of monk and explains " you are chewed by your thoughts, from inappropriate attention".
He (devata) further explains that keeping his mind on dhamma , sila or virtues, and sangha you will arrive at rapture and joy, and listening to this advise out of compassion , the monk is said to have come back to appropriate attention.( yoniso manasikara).
We often hear at sermons , a prior advise from the bikku giving the sermon to be with yoniso manasikara ( wise and appropriate attention ) as otherwise we will not be able to grasp the meaning of the sermon.

justindesilva
Posts: 824
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Re: yoniso manasikara in the texts.

Post by justindesilva » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:00 pm

phil wrote:
Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:40 am
Dear all

I've always been unclear on the meaning of yoniso manasikara. Sometimes it seems to be used synonymously with appamada, for example a Burmese sayadaw who said that it is "the attitude that makes akusala impossible." But recently when studying CMA I found that it is said to be the factor (rather than panna) that permits the extraction of realities from concepts, if you will. A search turned up this useful post by Starter which will be a good starter. h

Phil
Hello Dymtro and other friends,

Many thanks for your great input to the thread on the suttas about sense restraint. Nice to have you and other admirable friends in this forum. Have you gotten a collection of suttas on yoniso monasikara as well? Before practicing sense restraint and 4 establishment of mindfulness, it's even more important to practice right attention/consideration/reflection (where to put our attention and how to attend wisely), since only yoniso manasikara can lead to the abandonment of defilements/purification of mind and right speech/conduct/livelihood.

I've found the following relevant suttas (part 1):

MN2:
"The Blessed One said, "Monks, the ending of the fermentations is for one who knows & sees, I tell you, not for one who does not know & does not see. For one who knows what & sees what? Appropriate attention & inappropriate attention. When a monk attends inappropriately, unarisen fermentations arise, and arisen fermentations increase. When a monk attends appropriately, unarisen fermentations do not arise, and arisen fermentations are abandoned. There are fermentations to be abandoned by seeing, those to be abandoned by restraining, those to be abandoned by using, those to be abandoned by tolerating, those to be abandoned by avoiding, those to be abandoned by destroying, and those to be abandoned by developing."

"... He wisely attends: ‘This is suffering'; ‘This is the origin of suffering'; ‘This is the cessation of suffering'; ‘This is the way leading to the cessation of suffering. ...'"

S 45.55/5:31:
Dawn, bhikshus, is the forerunner, the harbinger of sun-rise.
Even so, bhikshus, for a monk this is the forerunner, the harbinger of the arising of the noble eightfold path, that is, accomplishment in wise attention.
Bhikshus, when a monk is accomplished in this wise attention, it is to be expected that he will cultivate the noble eightfold path, develop the noble eightfold path."

Iti 16:
"This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard: "With regard to internal factors, I don't envision any other single factor like appropriate attention as doing so much for a monk in training, who has not attained the heart's goal but remains intent on the unsurpassed safety from bondage. A monk who attends appropriately abandons what is unskillful and develops what is skillful."

AN 4:246 & SN 55:5
The four “virtues conducive to growth”/the “factors for attaining stream-entry:”
1) association with wise friends (kalyanamitta);
2) listening to true dhamma;
3) wise attention/reflection;
4) practise in accordance with true teaching.

SN 9.11
"... From inappropriate attention you're being chewed by your thoughts. Relinquishing what's inappropriate, contemplate appropriately. Keeping your mind on the Teacher, the Dhamma, the Sangha, your virtues, you will arrive at joy, rapture, pleasure without doubt. Then, saturated with joy, you will put an end to suffering & stress."

SN S 46.2:
Unwise attention gives rise to the five mental hindrances—sensual desire, ill will, sloth and torpor, restlessness and remorse, and doubt—which prevent us from attaining Samadhi.

Starter
SN 9.11 is Ayoniso manasikara sutta as quoted above is an ideal sutta , to show the positive by exllsining the negative.
This sutta explains about a monk who was having ill will, unskilled thoughts with harm ., and a devata who sees him with compassion and the fact that the monk is having ayoniso manasikara ( inappropriate attention ) tiwards his goal in him .
That is when devata brings the attention of monk and explains " you are chewed by your thoughts, from inappropriate attention".
He (devata) further explains that keeping his mind on dhamma , sila or virtues, and sangha you will arrive at rapture and joy, and listening to this advise out of compassion , the monk is said to have come back to appropriate attention.( yoniso manasikara).
We often hear at sermons , a prior advise from the bikku giving the sermon to be with yoniso manasikara ( wise and appropriate attention ) as otherwise we will not be able to grasp the meaning of the sermon.

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Kumara
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Re: yoniso manasikara in the texts.

Post by Kumara » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

On manasikāra alone, see this: viewtopic.php?t=11734#p177671
I'm not just a monk. I'm a human being. — Sayadaw U Jotika

arunam
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Re: yoniso manasikara in the texts.

Post by arunam » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:05 am

[Based on Nettippakarana, Nanamoli]

Ayoniso Mansikara

Its individual characteristic : Directing attention to gratification
Its footing : Ignorance (Avijja)

<Gratification : When a mortal desires, if his desire is fulfilled he is sure to Be happy>
<Disappointment : If his desires elude him he becomes deformed as if pierced by a barb
(They are sure to elude him due to anicca, dukkha, anatta)>

Yoniso Mansikara

Striving to understand reality, which culminates in knowledge.

Knowledge is five fold

Aquaintcquaintanceship : Knowledge about individual characteristics of phenomena
Diagnosis : This is profitable this is not
Abandoning : The Unprofitable
Keeping in being : The profitable
Verification : The undetermined(Nibbana)

Knowledge can also be divided in to two planes

Plane of seeing : Sotapanna
Plane of keeping-in-being : Three remaining attainments
A path is made by walking on it

paul
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Re: yoniso manasikara in the texts.

Post by paul » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:30 am

arunam wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:05 am
Plane of seeing : Sotapanna
"The well-instructed noble disciple... discerns what ideas are fit for attention, and what ideas are unfit for attention. This being so, he does not attend to ideas unfit for attention, and attends [instead] to ideas fit for attention... And what are the ideas fit for attention that he attends to? Whatever ideas such that, when he attends to them, the unarisen effluent of sensuality does not arise, and the arisen effluent of sensuality is abandoned; the unarisen effluent of becoming... the unarisen effluent of ignorance does not arise, and the arisen effluent of ignorance is abandoned... He attends appropriately, This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the way leading to the cessation of stress. As he attends appropriately in this way, three fetters are abandoned in him: identity-view, doubt, and grasping at habits & practices. These are called the effluents that are to be abandoned by seeing.”—MN 2

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Kumara
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Re: yoniso manasikara in the texts.

Post by Kumara » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:30 am

phil wrote:
Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:40 am
Dear all

I've always been unclear on the meaning of yoniso manasikara. Sometimes it seems to be used synonymously with appamada, for example a Burmese sayadaw who said that it is "the attitude that makes akusala impossible." But recently when studying CMA I found that it is said to be the factor (rather than panna) that permits the extraction of realities from concepts, if you will. A search turned up this useful post by Starter which will be a good starter.

Phil
Hello Dymtro and other friends,

Many thanks for your great input to the thread on the suttas about sense restraint. Nice to have you and other admirable friends in this forum. Have you gotten a collection of suttas on yoniso monasikara as well? Before practicing sense restraint and 4 establishment of mindfulness, it's even more important to practice right attention/consideration/reflection (where to put our attention and how to attend wisely), since only yoniso manasikara can lead to the abandonment of defilements/purification of mind and right speech/conduct/livelihood.

I've found the following relevant suttas (part 1):

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Metta to all,

Starter
From the suttas, we can see that manasikara does have a wide meaning, which Starter has already mentioned above (which I highlight in blue. "Attention" is just one kind of manasikara. Thus, I choose "cognition".
I'm not just a monk. I'm a human being. — Sayadaw U Jotika

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